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Today’s guest is Ms. Heather Beck. Heather is an IACP All star. If you go to conference, you’ll see Heather, I don’t know if you call them your entourage or your groupies, but there’s like people that follow you around the whole time. Do you pay them? No. Well, we can, we’ll talk about that in the episode.

There’s just this whole, I never saw you by yourself a single time in like five days. There’s like 10 people around you. But Heather’s got a, a long, long, uh, career in the dog world. She started a boarding training and daycare center called Canine Lifeline, and recently sold it, which congratulations on that, Heather.

She’s also the creator of the Sidekick, which I think we’re gonna talk a lot about today. And on top of that, I think you’re our first guest that owns camels, so that’s a total flex and pretty cool. So maybe we could dive into the Camel training a little bit too. 

Yeah, I’m into it. So yeah, the sidekick, the Heather’s heroes side of my business and all of that.

I’m, I’m happy to chat. Let’s do it. 

Well, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. 

Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m a long time listener, I guess, and I definitely always really appreciate this, uh, this podcast, so I’m, I’m grateful to be on it. 

We’ve wanted to have you on for a while and I think, when did we do Mark Goldberg?

That was one of our first episodes. And Mark, I remember at the end of it it was like, you have to get Heather on. There were a couple people he said, and it was like Heather and someone else. Mark is definitely 

one of my BFFs, so I appreciate that from him. 

Yeah. Alright, well, where do we wanna start? Do you wanna give everyone just a background and if, if I said anything incorrect in my intro, definitely correct it.

Just give us a little background on yourself and your, your training journey. 

Okay. Well it’s, it’s been a long time. I’m definitely pushing 30 years over 30 years, which is absolutely nuts ’cause I know I’m so young and baby faced, but it, I just can’t believe that, that it’s been this long. But it’s, it’s been a great journey.

It’s definitely been, um, amazing from starting in shelters and rescue. I even worked as an animal control officer, which is one of the most difficult jobs I’ve ever had. But definitely gives you perspective of the other side of what’s happening, working in shelters, um, running my own large breed and pit bull rescue for many years, and then realizing how exhausting rescue is and how tiring it is, and then was able to kind of trip myself into the, uh.

The training world because literally every dog that I was adopting out, and at the time, you know, I fostered over 1500 dogs through my own home before I set up my own kennel for, you know, I had 16 kennels for my rescue, but that was all through my house. And so you definitely learn a lot and as I’m placing those dogs, you’re really doing a training appointment, you know, you’re teaching them about crate training.

For me, I was learning, I learned quickly that the prong was a pretty easy way to get a dog to walk with you. You know, keep in mind, I mean, this was 30 years ago, we didn’t have advantage of social media and, and that it, there, there really was not a lot of connectivity between what you were doing. It was just kinda figuring it out, you know, how to make things work.

And so, you know, I just kind of stumbled through a lot of that stuff, you know, how to keep dogs from killing each other while I was feeding them breakfast was, you know, how I learned all about crate training. So having them potty training of course. So, so yeah. So then once I started getting more into.

The training side, I, I closed down my, uh, my rescue side, but I already had a huge community around me in that, in that world I lived in Utah and we had, um, best friends Animal society there and I was able to build a very nice community there. So when I started moving into training, a lot of people really disappointed ’cause they knew how good I was with the dogs and with fostering and placing them.

And so once I moved into training. Alls I did was when people would call and try and place a dog with me, I would say, Hey, is it cool if we just get together? I’ll come over to your house. I’m gonna teach you all about dogs and dog behavior and all this stuff. And so that’s how I started just kind of moving into the training side of things and worked outta my house for a while.

I closed down, I had a retail pet store that I had bought, um, where I had had my kennels and had a grooming location as well. And, uh, closed that down. Spent some time working outta my home. And then I went to see Chad Mackin, his very first workshop. And immediately I came home and wanted to go get a space because I knew that dogs needed to socialize together.

So I went to and got a space about a month later, started running basically a daycare and then also Saturday socials for my clients that I kind of built up over the years. And Canine Lifeline was, was born. From that 22 years ago was born from that. Um, and ever since then I’ve had, um, a couple different locations.

I’ve started other facilities, I’ve closed other facilities. I’ve helped and mentored thousands of other trainers through workshops and shadow programs. And I’ve been a very supportive member of IACP for, I think, gosh, I don’t know, I think I’m on 20 years now of IACP. Um, and IACP was really that, that change of really building the community, of getting to know people like Mark Goldberg and Martin Deley, who was my dog father, and really brought me into a community that, uh, that could, that I could in and supported.

And then soon as I went to my first conference, I was hooked. So that’s, that’s kinda my journey. But yeah, canine Lifeline came about. Um, I had a daily, um, when I sold about a hundred to 160 dogs a day. So that’s training, boarding, daycare. Uh, we’ve never turned a dog away, ever. So that was a big thing. So we took a lot of aggressive dogs.

A lot of difficult dogs, a lot of aggressive dogs, socialized every single one of ’em. Um, helped through the training process, um, my training process with them, working with the sidekick or other tools. You know, I’m not just, uh, sidekick specific, but I do see the huge benefits to it. And also in 2021, I was featured on a TV show called The Profit, which this was kind of like coming outta COVID.

I had the, the Leash, you know, the sidekick at the time it was called the Canine Lifeline Transitional Leash. And that business through COVID just completely blew up. I think everybody was home with their little jerk dogs. They were like, oh my gosh, I should probably get this thing walking. And so that business went crazy.

So then we were on this TV show called The Profit with Marcus Limonis. He ended up investing in me, investing in my business, and then also giving me the name and the Smarts to basically separate out Heather’s heroes from Canine Lifeline. So Heather’s heroes basically became the product line and books and education side of what I do.

And so then. In December, I sold Canine Lifeline, the brick and mortar part of my life, which as much as I loved it, 22 years was enough, 22 years was enough. So now I am, uh, I’m hanging out. I just moved from Utah to Colorado. I moved from a 4,200 square foot home to an 800 square foot home. So that’s why we’re, you know, doing this, uh, under the Stairs podcast today.

Which, which is kind of fun. But, uh, it’s like a 

little Harry Potter space. If you just, it’s like a little Harry Potter space. Can you it off a little? 

You know, I, I enjoy it. Um, but it’s a big change ’cause we basically kinda left everything behind and our, and I’m starting a new life out here, but that was really all due to my life with dogs, you know, being able to make this transition.

And then selling Canine Lifeline, which I just never thought I would do. Selling Canine Lifeline, you know, it just gave me the freedom to be able to kind of move wherever I wanted. And now with Heather’s Heroes, I get to do different trade shows, to still do educational stuff. I’ve got a lot of online stuff.

I still do in-person workshops. And I’m still trying to figure out how to do shadow programs ’cause I’m missing all of my dogs and I’m missing, really missing being at Canine Lifeline every day. You know, having, you know, access to a hundred dogs a day to, to work with and handle and train and, you know, just get a feel for, so I, I definitely miss that, but I’m, I’m finding a new passion, a new love for not necessarily being around 160 dogs every day, but a hard transition.

Yeah, I guess that’s, that’s where I’m at right now. 

I think my brain’s still stuck on how many dogs? 1500? Is that what you said? You ran through your house? 

Yeah, yeah. Through my house from when I was running my restaurant. Bon 

Curves. That’s a lot of dogs. 

Yeah. And I didn’t know what I was doing. Like literally the first time I ever went to an adoption event, there was an ad in the paper that tells you how long ago that was.

There was an ad in the paper about this adoption event at the mall, and I was like, oh, that sounds cool, you know? And I grew up with horses. So when I moved from, I grew up in Wisconsin. When I moved from Wisconsin to Utah, I obviously was not gonna be able to, I didn’t continue my horse stuff, but I was, you know, obviously wanted to work around animals.

So I just saw that and I was like, oh, I just caught my eye. I went to my first adoption event and I fostered my very first two dogs. Their names were Mary Kate and Ashley, and they were about four feet long and about a foot tall. So they were like Bassett Hound something, mixes, and I took ’em to my house and I knew nothing about ’em.

I had a, a dog, a rescue dog that I had. One of my first dogs, his name was Beast. He had teeth sticking out in every direction, and I adopted him when he was three. He’s, you know, another reason why you get into this stuff is ’cause every trainer out there has that dog. You learned a lot from, and for me that dog was beast.

And uh, so I took them back to my house. I didn’t know anything about Crate training, leash work, nothing. I let ’em both loose in my house and they ran over it. They were like giant slinkies, like running all over my house. They were running across my exceptional couch, peeing all over it. Uh, you know, then I was just like, oh, this is so great.

My dog Beast did not think So the next morning I went to go feed them. ’cause I didn’t even know like how to feed Dog Shepherds. I just had this one dog, right? And so I went to go feed them and Beast attacked one of ’em, like really bad. Like he attacked one of ’em really bad. They ended up having to get a lot of stitches and that kind of stuff.

So it was, it was kind of like literally trial by fire. And I took the dogs back to the rescue. They did get adopted like that day, which was really cool. But then they got returned and then they ended up living at best friends for several, several years. Like several, several years after that they built dogs.

Like, but I didn’t know any better. You know? I didn’t know any better. So that, that 1500. Those are lessons I learned 1500 times over. Now people talk about, oh, I’m a dog trainer. But it’s like, man, how many dogs have you actually started, like, of different sizes, ages, breeds in your own home and had that experience with, you know, like I, I learned how to use a prong collar because, um, the store that I had where I had my kennels was a retail pet store.

And so we had, you know, training tools on the shelves and, and I, there was a prong and I always had dogs that pulled, like, that was just such a big deal. I always had dogs that pulled and, you know, I was like, well, I’m gonna try this thing. And I literally made two turns with this dog who was just yanking my arm off and, you know, and the dog was just like, kind of looked up at me and I was.

That was different. And then the dog just walked with me. I mean, my mind was just absolutely blown. I was like, this is magic. You know? ’cause just like I said, I didn’t have any help. I didn’t have that connectivity. So each one of those dogs that I fostered really taught me something, you know, taught me, Hey, don’t leave the front door open because I’m gonna go bolting out and you’re gonna chase me for five hours.

Learn how to cre train for not just potty training, but for a peace of mind for dogs. Teach me how to walk on a leash better and figure out what are the best ways to do that. And those, those were a lot of my, a lot of my training ground were those were those dogs. And I’m super grateful for all of them.

Trial by fire. 

Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. You wanna learn a lot. Foster dogs. Go for it. Tell me, tell me how much empathy that’s gonna build. ’cause it will, it’ll build a lot of empathy towards your clients. You know, it doesn’t have to be a difficult dog. Just a dog. Like, just go for it.

You know? 

So, looking back, do you feel like, so giving someone who doesn’t have a lot of experience, just a couple dogs to go foster and do whatever with. Seems like not a great decision. Not, and not second guessing any of the, you know, actual person. Do you think that’s been, but that happens all the time and I’ve seen that so many times all the time.

Do you think that’s changed lately or do you still feel like there’s people just being handed dogs and like good luck? 

No, I feel like that happens every day. I mean, out of shelters and rescues and, um, you know, I’m starting to work with my local rescue here. Um, and it, it’s frustrating. It’s sort of frustrating and I, and it just reminds me why I kind of moved away from some of, from some of the organizations because I feel like there’s so much that I can do to help that.

There’s definitely a lot of roadblocks in kind of how they want to do things at that shelter and how they wanna train the dog and that, and they don’t, they don’t wanna train the dogs. They don’t know that when I ask about like, Hey, can I just do a little leash work with this dog? But, you know, I got this head collar and they’re okay with head collars, but I’m like, I got this head color leach that I designed, invented, and it like literally have probably put on over 10,000 dogs.

You know, I didn’t say that, but I’m like, you know, I’m so excited because it’s this really nice dog that has just been there a really, really long time. And they’re like, well, that’s not really our priority. What. What do you mean that’s not your priority? Like, like the two things that I found so valuable, because I was still in the training when I was still kind of working through, um, you know, I was learning a lot about training as I was working with my foster dogs.

The two things that got them adopted the fastest. A dog that walks nicely on leash and a dog who is crate trained. Those were the two most valuable things. And I, I couldn’t quite process what, what I was hearing. And then I went and worked with one of the trainers that they work with, um, you know, and she is, she is younger.

She’s been in the industry maybe about five years, you know, and I just asked a lot of questions and you know, what her goals are and, you know, and I asked about the leash, but they’re like, well, it’s just not our priority. So the priority for them is just hang, keep the dogs comfortable while they’re here.

Don’t stress them out. Which I feel like that was what they felt about actual training and leash work, was that I was gonna stress them out. And then once they get in the home, then it’s up to the adopter to figure out the training, which it seems very, very backwards to me where I’m like, well, if you have a dog, there’s a dog that’s been at that shelter for five years.

If you have a dog in your shelter for five years and it still cannot walk on a leash without barking at other dogs, what are you doing? You know, like there’s gotta just be a better way, you know, like if, and, and this is a very dog friendly town. I moved to Dogtown, us, USA, I live in Steam Springs, Colorado, and there are dogs everywhere.

So, and this shelter’s small. There’s not a lot of dogs. I think they usually about eight to 12 maybe. And so, you know, it’s like, it’s very possible to work with each one of these guys individually and be able to help them out and get ’em walking nicer on a leash. But to a dog who is not good with other dogs, that’s like, that’s a, you’re gonna stay in this shelter for a really long time in this community because it’s such a dog friendly place.

But if you can teach that dog to walk on leash without being reactive to other dogs, in a matter of days, how much faster is that dog gonna get adopted? You know, so that’s, so that’s been a, that’s been a struggle. But yeah, I do feel people, it makes me sad when people get dogs that are either way above their skillset or they’re not given the proper tools, techniques, education, um, to be able to help them with a new dog in the home sucks.

Yeah. And it, I’m sure a big part of it’s, there’s just such a shortage of fosters and could always use more and, and someone’s willing to take a dog. It’s pretty hard to say, no, you’ve gotta go through all this training first. 

Yeah. Well, and even with a municipal shelter too, you know, and I, I come from working at some of the biggest shelter, well, the biggest shelter in the state of Utah, you know, I mean, there’s hundreds of dogs there every day.

And when somebody comes to adopt, it’s okay, here you go, good luck. You know, doesn’t mean that they don’t provide resources and things like that, but they don’t have the time, they don’t have the capacity, um, to be able to really, um, you know, delve into what’s gonna be best for, um, for that dog and in that environment, which is a benefit for the Humane Society that’s here is they don’t have a lot of dogs.

You know, they’re, they’re pulling dogs from other places. It’s, it’s a, it’s a total luxury here of this humane society is that they’re pulling dogs from New Mexico and Texas, I think. And because it’s just such a dog friendly area and, you know, they don’t, they’re not dealing with a lot of the normal stuff that a larger city would be dealing with.

It’s gotta be nice versus walking in and there’s whatever 75 strays they’ve gotten that all look like they’ve been in dog fights recently. 

Yep. Yeah. Well we have 13 shelters within Salt Lake City limits. Then we had, um, then we also had the Humane Society. So Humane Society is just based on owner surrenders, you know, so I’d be standing in the parking lot, going to go do evaluations with some of the dogs and, you know, income 10 dogs.

And I’m like, why? Like, why, why? Like, I’ve, I’ve pulled dogs straight from their owners before they walk in the door, because I know once they walk in the door, the likelihood of getting adopted is just not, it’s not great. The likelihood of the home that the dog’s gonna go into, I had a better, I had a better opportunity to be able to place that dog into a more fitting home through shelter and rescue.

So, yeah, it’s, it’s a, yeah, it’s kind of a cool spot to be here. So I hope I get my foot in the door a little bit with the, with the rescue here. ’cause I, I know that there’s a lot of like shelters and rescues that if I came knocking on their door and said, Hey, I would love to volunteer for you for free.

What can I do for you? That they would really enjoy that. And so here, I’m, I’m kind of getting my foot in the door, like, I’m going to walk dogs, I’m going to clean kennels. I’m going to do, you know, I’m, I’m just there because I, I know that they need help. So I, I wanna be able to help them. But, you know, I, at some point if there’s, if there’s just no breakthrough, it also hurts me to watch dogs sit in kennels and, and have easy, quick solutions, but still have a barricade to not wanting to stress the dog out to those solutions.

That’s very, that’s difficult to hear. Where I’m like, what do you mean stress them out? Like, don’t you think living in a shelter for five years stresses a dog out? Yeah. You know, existing in this environment stresses dogs out. So, you know, it’s not, it’s not doing ’em any favors by not, you know, not seeking better behavior, you know, but I don’t think they think it’s translatable.

Like, I don’t think they think that training is translatable, like in just the obedience mindset. That saying, oh, well sit down, stay here. Calm is, is not translatable unless you train the owner. Well, of course, but then, you know, you only got a couple dogs. So, I mean, I’m right here. I’d be happy to do a go home lesson like with, with any owner that’s adopting.

But, you know, future, future goals for me in my, in my new community, 

I don’t know your experience on this, but I’ve seen a lot of shelters where I feel like they’ve gotten burned over the years, but they’ve had trainers and they’re all over the map. Right. And I’ve seen a lot that they’ve had a trainer that some, you know, some people thought were, it was too tough on the dog.

But then others where it’s truly pure, actually purely positive. Not just positive reinforcement, but Right. No correction whatsoever. And it doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. And they, and then the trainer gets bit and they end up quitting. And I’ve just seen so many shelters where they’ve had a bunch of people roll through and I think they may be just kind of burned out on the process and.

I think maybe they don’t realize what you can actually offer. Right? Yeah. Where they Yeah, 

no, and that’s, and that’s exactly it. You know, where I’m just gonna keep volunteering. I’m just gonna keep helping, you know? And I, when I first asked about being able to work with the dog and they just straight up said no.

I was like, well, I said, well, you know, you don’t quite know me yet. You know, but I, you know, I’d love to kind of keep picking your brain. And that’s when I set up an appointment to go meet with their trainer. Their trainer is, is a positive reinforcement trainer. I sat with her and, and we talked for three hours watching her work with some of the dogs.

Um, and it was good, I mean, good at the style of training that she does, you know, self-admittedly, as soon as we walked out of this area where we’re keeping this dog from barking, you know, every time the dog’s not barking, marking reward, marking reward. And, but then as soon as we walked out, I said, well, what happens when we leave?

She’s like, well, she’s probably just gonna keep barking. I was like, okay. I mean, the dog’s been there a year. This dog’s been there a year. So, and it doesn’t mean that I’m coming in with any quick fixes and I find, find a lot of value in what she was doing and I really appreciated her taking the time to meet with me because, ’cause she didn’t have to, you know, she didn’t have to.

But no, it was really great and just watching her work, and obviously she’s very passionate about the dogs there. But yeah, I mean, we definitely see things differently as far as like the stressing of dogs. You know, it’s like as soon as there was a little bit of stress in any behavior, like it ended, like, it just ended like whether we were standing there and the dog got a little stressed.

I was like, okay, get outta here, walk away. And I was like. Yeah, but sometimes it’s just like, let’s get ’em over that. Like let’s get ’em through, walk ’em through that stressor, because that’s just what’s gonna happen. You know, let’s just walk, let’s help guide them through how to deal with that stress. And that goes completely in line with my entire training processes.

I wanna guide, help the dog figure out how to work through stress comfortably, safely, and feel more secure. Because overcoming fear and stress builds confidence. It builds confidence in any dog’s behavior. So that was, but it was, it was interesting. It was good to watch. So I’m, you know, I’m happy and um, in the next couple weeks I’m actually gonna be at A PDT.

I got invited to be a vendor at A PDT. So I feel like I’m really excited for a lot of those conversations and getting to meet a lot of the trainers that are using my tools. You know, ’cause my tool can be utilized in just about, that’s a cool thing. It can be utilized with just about any type of training process.

It’s probably gonna be trained a little bit differently than how I find is the simplest and most effective. But they’re, I mean, across the board trainers use this tool. So that’s a good thing. 

Well, that sounds like a good segue to talk about the sidekick talk and talk. Tell us what it is and maybe what it’s not.

Okay. Well the sidekick is basically, I mean, I guess I got this guy. I don’t mean to talk about it. So this is the mini version. Look at it. I brought my dog to work day. So the sidekick is basically a head collar, um, and SL lead done one. So you’ve got both. It’s got an SO here, so it’s not a figure eight, it’s got an SO here.

And then also an integrated safety, which for any tool, a lot of tools, if you’re don’t have a safety on it, uh, you probably should. Um, I watched a dog back out of, um, a very similar thing where they were not worried about having the safety on and almost get hit by a train. So I am very big on safety. And Jason, before we started, you had said that you kind of messed with this tool a little bit.

Tell me a little bit about your experience using it. 

My use has been a little limited in, in actual use. Okay. So, yeah. But I’ve seen other people use it. My wife was working with a particular dog and he, she was struggling with him a bit, pulling him and, uh mm-hmm. So she went online, she bought a couple sidekicks.

I think she bought four or five of them. She, for Thank you. Said, we’re gonna thank you for your service and your support. We’re gonna, she said we’re gonna, we’re gonna try this and see, see what this is about. So she, she did, he is not a problematic dog. He’s just a really strong-willed Labrador retriever.

I know that’s surprising probably to both of you that, that that labs can be stubborn. It was, it was, it was difficult to reach him. Uh, it just kinda all over the map. And he was an incessant, incessant puller. 

Yeah. 

She, she brought those home. We, we took a look at ’em. We got him fitted. She took him on a walk and she came back glowing.

She’s like, wow. Because we, we both used, I mean, not to bore you, but I mean, we’ve, we’ve used it all. 

Yeah. We’ve 

used lots of different ecos over the years. We have a preferred brand, but I mean, we’ve used them all, you know? Yeah. Head halt. There’s gentle leaders. We’ve used them all. 

Yeah. 

Prong collar choke.

I, I learned to train dogs on choke chains. Okay. That’s how old I am. You could not find a prong collar, right? So, 

yep. Killer style man. Killer style. 

Yeah. Yeah. Old school choke chains. But so she, she goes out, she goes on this walk, she comes back, she’s super elated. She’s like, man, that made the world of difference with this dog.

One that she, again, has struggled now for weeks to make any progress with. And then she looks me dead in the eye and she’s like, so, so what’s the difference here? How does this work? And I’m like, don’t you’re asking the wrong one. I have no idea. But I know the person I might be able to ask and find out.

Yeah. And I 

know that there’s been some. Some back and forth, it seems like lately on social media where people are like, oh, this is just the same old thing and it’s not. I can promise you it’s not. I don’t know how it’s not. Yeah. I’m hoping you can explain it. Sure. So that maybe I can take a bastardized version of that explanation back to others, but, uh, no, it is not the same thing.

Yeah, no, I mean, and it, and it’s not, and I’ll tell you, for many, many years, um, I worked with the holies when people come at me because I, I kind of get it from all sides, you guys, I will straight tell you, head collars in the dog training world are hated from. All sides literally hate from all sides. So like the balance trainers, I can do that on a prong collar, I can do that with an eco.

Then on the force free side, it’s abuse. Why would you wanna force your dog to do that? Why would you wanna do that? Or, you know, you kind of get the well, and it’s not just a no pull tool, which is one the older brands of head colors were specifically made for is just, hey, just let’s just get the dogs to stop pulling.

So my concepts, training stuff all comes from worlds of horses. So I grew up with horses. I did not have a dog growing up. And the first time I ever pulled that faulty off of my little retail pet store thing and was able to work with it and, and I worked with another trainer that helped me to learn a lot more about it as well.

And I, you know, as soon as I started working with it, it was like, bang, that everything made sense because it was exactly what I did. And when I was running my rescue, I could take dogs to any obedience class I wanted to. Anytime. Anytime. You know? But I’ll tell you, I never completed one. I never finished one.

First was boring. Second, I was running a large breed and pit bull rescue. So I’ve got a dog who’s killed two dogs, you know, covered in bite marks from a fighting ring, and I’m supposed to use treats in his face when he sees another dog. It just, it just didn’t make sense to me. But once I started working more on like this natural side, because it is a natural pressure point across the bridge of the nose that makes all of the difference.

It’s the same way mom would Correct. It’s the same way other dogs would. Correct. It’s the same way that we talk about the prong collar, creating that kind of natural pressure point and how dogs learn naturally. Pressure on and pressure off. They’re not using treats and telling each other, sit down, stay.

That just doesn’t happen. So it goes more to the natural side of things with the sidekick. So I made the transition from the halt, which I really liked. The halt, I really liked the halt. It had a lot of structure. It, uh, created pressure on and pressure off, but it was from the bottom of the head. Also, there’s multiple sizes, so it actually is, goes from zero to size five.

So you’ve gotta have a bunch of different sizes. And if you’ve got a dog that’s right in between, or for me, I had really big fat head dogs with really short faces, so it would be a bigger size, but then this was huge on them, so it was, you know, really hard fitting. And then the biggest complaint from most everybody, all sides of training, you’re gonna break the dog’s neck.

You’re, you’re gonna break the dog’s neck because it comes from the bottom of the head. I’ve never had that problem. I’ve never seen it happen. I’ve had people tell me a friend of a friend of a friend had that happen to their dog. And I will, I am not a vet, so I don’t claim what happens. ’cause definitely there can be soft tissue.

I mean, if the dog is lunging forward, you know, and you’re yanking ’em back, that can obviously cause damage. And we do not wanna hurt dogs. But this is what I was working with at the time. This is what was out there. So I got, um, when I was working with the animal control, we used to use the figure eight just as an emergency muzzle.

So we would use a figure eight and then we would wrap the dogs. Muzzle in it. And so I had this big bulldog thing with that exact head shape, big wide head, really short muzzle, just had this little spot right here. Dog was super nasty, human aggressive. I could not get a halt on this dog at this point. I’d spent two days just kind of get to know her enough to let her get me, be able to get close enough to her to be able to even touch her without her wanting to rip my face off.

So I was just hanging out with her. I said, you know what, I’m gonna try this. Because I knew that I could create basically a head collar out of this, and I knew that it would fit in that tiny little fold. She was kinda like an old English, so she had a little bit more of a face. So I did that with her and that was the start of it.

Like that was it, where I was like, man, I could really make something of this, you know? So I started using just the figure eight a lot on the dogs, but it wasn’t, it didn’t fit the way I wanted to. The cross underneath was not good. And then the material that it was made out of, you know, it was like the really kind of hard nylon.

Rope. So finding better rope, adding more parts to it, getting it to fit a little bit easier, making multiple sizes, adding the little S hook so you didn’t have to do that. It fits a little bit better. And then being able to incorporate the safety so you don’t end up with extra parts rubbing up against the dog’s face and skin.

So with the sidekick, it does use that naturally ingrained instinct of pressure on and pressure off. That is the goal. The goal is to get to the dog, to the point where little to no pressure is being used ever. And also the cool thing, you can switch to the slip lead, you can switch it down to the slip lead.

So as their behavior improves, you have the tool improve with them. Or let’s say you’re, you’re out in an area. This happened to me not too long ago where I was out with my puppy. My puppy is super sensitive. Um, and I was out with my puppy and all of a sudden, here comes stray cap. So I had her on the slip lead.

She strays the stray cap, she starts losing her fricking mind. So I just go, whoop, and I put that up on her. I’m just using pressure on and pressure off to help, to guide her into calming down. And it’s very much communication in the same way that they would communicate is pressure on When I want pressure on, I want the dog to go into a sitting position into that kind of submissive mindset.

So it’s not just asking the dog for a sit for a treat, where physically they’re doing what you want. It really is the calming of the body and the mind because of that natural pressure point. So once they go into that position, I release pressure. That release of pressure is that exact moment that says, Hey, that’s exactly what I wanted from you.

It’s exactly what I wanted from you. And my training process is not tool dependent. You could do this on the prong, you could do it on a martingale, you could do it on just the slip lead. But the difference, especially for an excitable dog, a fearful dog, an anxious dog, a reactive dog, is this pressure point.

It just literally just helps to calm their mind. And when I get to this point and when I’m working, let’s say if I have a reactive dog in the prong, most of the time the only answer I’m gonna get to with the prong, with the reactive dog is getting the dog to just avoid looking. Just avoid looking, which for my training, I don’t want the process to be avoid looking.

I want the process to, I want you to be calm enough that you can look without blowing up, you know, without going into fight. And the head collar makes it super, super easy to do that. And I did that for years with the halte, and then I was able to transition that over into, into the sidekick to be able to do the exact same thing.

And even, um, in 2016 was the first time I ever spoke at the IACP. I think you can still find it on online, um, on the IACP website, I think. I don’t know. But, um, it’s, uh, five Steps to a Canine Lifeline. And even in that video, that was when I was still making the transition between the halte because I love the structure of the halte and working with the sidekick, getting that, that same kind of comparison with the sidekick, but the sidekick, it’s safer.

It’s better material, it has better fit, better function, and better communication with the pressure on and pressure off. So like I get com, I, I mean, we do a lot of marketing for the sidekick right now and I get a lot of people, oh, you’re gonna break the dog’s neck. I literally have this meme that I just post back as a comment that’s like, it literally can’t do that.

Like, it literally can’t do that. You know, just explaining like all the negative comments. You got like four boxes. Like, oh, how original You say it’s gonna break the dog’s neck. Here you go, boom, here’s this. Oh, it’s a gimmick. Boom. Here you go. Here’s the, oh, it’s not training, you’re lazy. Boom, here you go.

It’s like training is training. You know, it’s getting the dog’s behavior to change. It’s getting the dog to see the environment in a different way. It’s not just about the physical position of what they’re doing, it’s the mental change for what they’re doing. And I’ll tell you, the sidekick is the most effective tool to do that.

It’s super, super effective to help to get the dog to do it. And you guys, you know. We’re living in a time where tools are being attacked. People are afraid to use certain tools. They’re afraid. They’re afraid to have a prong collar on their dog. They’re afraid to use an eco, you know, they don’t feel good about it.

So the nice thing about the Sidekick is that it is a tool that people can feel good about, especially if they’ve got a really difficult dog and pretty quickly, just like your wife did, Jason, they’re gonna see results even with no training. You know, imagine that they watch My Be Become Your Dog’s Heroes Course.

You know, it’s, they go through that little course like 67 bucks, like they go through that course. Now they wizards, you know, at just a simple tool. I’ve had, I had this guy send me a picture ’cause of a review. He sent me a picture totally on Awful, like, it’s not even on correctly if something’s wrong way up here, whatever the caption says, best Walk ever.

So I was like. 

Okay, great. So I, I kinda had to stop gatekeeping it and I, and I’m, I’m, I’m gonna ask, because this is a trainer’s podcast, I’m gonna ask trainers, stop gatekeeping tools, stop it, start educating more, you know, we got social media and I know that people wanna work in person, they wanna do that, but I really struggled with that because I was like, well, no, I’ve gotta condition the dog.

I’ve gotta do that. But getting out to a mass market, you have to get better at educating people. You have to get better at, you know, what does this do? But I also realized that this tool, even in the most novice hands, people are usually gonna see results. And if they don’t, that’s okay. You know what I mean?

It’s maybe not for them, maybe it’s not for their dog, or they give up too quick. You know, a lot of people just give up too quick or like, oh, my dog fussed with it, got it off. He hated it. Okay, well that is not for you. But I, I definitely ask people to just stop gatekeeping tools because I feel like that’s usually gonna be the best way to increase education.

Get more tools out there so that we can be safer. You know, if your leg is broken, you need crutches. And to tool shame and a tool bashing, I don’t care what tool it is. If you’re gonna do that, you are the one hurting dogs. You are the one gatekeeping, you’re the one not allowing people or making people feel bad about the tools that they’re gonna choose no matter what the tool is.

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Aurora even has a heated vest made, especially for dogs. Visit aurora.com, that’s OROR o.com to find the perfect heated apparel for you and your pump. Use code IACP to get 15% off your new heated gear. So I’ve got a training question for you on, on the sidekick. So in. When I train a dog, I am a big believer on using the leash in collar, whatever tool as a calming technique.

So I have a client, they’re walking the dog outside. They’re using whatever collar they happen to use now in the house. Dog gets wild if they can’t control it verbally. Put the leash on. You know what to do, do your heel turn, sit, stay, whatever. Whatever they’ve been working on. I mean, the dog chills out, drop the leash.

If he is good enough, take it off. And now he’s free again. Are you doing that in the house with. The sidekick is, or are they also using a normal collar? I’m just curious how you’re actually utilizing it. 

Yeah, so they’re actually, so my whole training process is just starts with a leash, which I think any training program or process should start with the conditioning of the leash, helping dogs understand pressure on and pressure off.

That’s my training process. It’s not, you know, I don’t use a lot of verbal, I don’t use food at the beginning of my training. Don’t shoot me please. But it’s just I’ve, I’ve found that it actually kind of interrupts a little bit of what the mental mindset is that I’m going for. It adds a little bit too much fuel to the fire.

Doesn’t mean you can’t train the sidekick without it, but for me, the way that I use is just pressure on and pressure off. But yeah, my whole training process, and it’s called the transitional leash on purpose because it is meant to transition from, let’s say, the head collar to the slip lead. And now even in the house.

My next process is teaching what we call zen zone, which is teaching the dog. Now we’re transitioning what I call contact pressure, which is the touching of the leash. Of the dog where we’re using that pressure on to get the dog into that calm position versus now I’m gonna use that to use eye contact and body language distance pressure to get that dog into a calm mindset and position onto a zen zone and a bed.

Then once that has been translated, usually that’s what I have my client’s practice like the first week is those three things. I want them to teach calm, which is the leash, like just teaching the dog to sit calmly next to you on a loose leash, because if you cannot get a dog to sit calmly next to you on a loose leash, you’re really gonna struggle to get them walking with you on one.

So practicing with that, then the walk, you know, the walk to me is actually secondary. Most trainers, this is the part where they struggle because they’re not patient enough to just sit with the dog. They wanna move, they wanna wear the dog out, they wanna do this. But if you’re moving all the time, that’s hard to get the dog to settle their mind as well.

Keep in mind, they’re predators, right? Like they’re on the hunt, they’re looking, they’re doing whatever. They’re trying to think, think, think. If you just get ’em to sit there next to you and kind of be bored and learn how to be calm, that’s how they’re gonna learn how to be calm, is you gotta teach ’em. So, you know, sometimes those dog going bonkers in the houses because they’re not teaching ’em to just sit calmly next to them, you know?

So for me, then when we start doing, we do the walk, then we do zen zone. So those are the first three weeks, their first week in our training. That’s what the owner is practicing for homework. Then when we come back in, we incorporate setting boundaries. So now setting boundaries is not onto a bed. And the difference between Zenz zone and place to me, I’ll give you that real quick, is that place is a spot of anticipation.

So they’re waiting for the release, they’re waiting for the reward, they’re waiting for This zenz zone is, I just want you to go there and kick it. I need you to be there both mentally and physically. I’m gonna be eating dinner. I don’t know when I’m gonna let you off of there. And I want the dog to, when they go onto that place, that’s what it means is I just want you to chill there.

I don’t wanna create like a slingshot where they’re waiting to come off of that position. Okay? So I want it to be very, very calm for them. So that’s kind of how I explain the difference to my clients of Zenz Zone versus a place. So then we start working setting boundaries, which basically could be at the door.

It’s getting the dog into that same position by creating space around the door, using eye contact and body language, moving into a sitting position, sitting or laying down. I don’t really care. I’m not asking them to do it. I’m just using my body language to get ’em into that position. Once they do that, I release pressure by backing away the same way that I would release pressure by lowering a leash, backing away and still having the dog in that position.

So let’s say if I just need ’em outta the kitchen, great. I can set boundaries. If I need room around the door, great. I’m just setting boundaries. So, so yeah, it transitions and it transitions really quickly. Like in the first day, even with an aggressive dog, I can easily teach them that when I’m applying body and distance pressure to them, that I need them to go into that more understanding position rather than in a fight, which would be to come up and bite me.

Okay. Or avoid, you know, and they’re, they’re okay to avoid, but I don’t want avoidance to be the end of the conversation. I want avoidance to be part of it. And it is, it’s definitely part of the conversation is when the dog is saying, you know what? I’m gonna do it, but I’m not gonna pay attention to you.

Like I, we’re not looking, we’re not talking about this right now. But then the more that you keep being consistent and your timing of pressure and release with, whether it’s with the leash or with your body, they’re gonna start wanting to look at you for that information. So I’m not having to use anything else to get that, that communication.

It’s the same way that they would wanna work with each other. So it comes pretty simply. So yeah, my whole training process is based on dogs can’t live on the leash forever, but use the sidekick in the head collar when you need to, because of course, the other thing that people ask is when do they get to take it off?

I’ve had people ask me that and five years later they’re still using it. And I go, great. I don’t care if it makes you feel good. If it makes a dog feel good, I’m not here. There’s no timeline. I just want you to have a good walk. So I’m not, I’m not the trainer that’s like, oh, we gotta get off this tool, we gotta do this, we gotta do that.

So I just want people to be able to get their dogs out safely and comfortably. 

I’ve never understood the fixation with getting away from any tool. I mean, I, I do like, I, I work on that and I, I hate to see someone reliant on any collar and they can’t trust the dog without it or whatever. Right. But when it’s like the stated goal from the start, especially a collar that you’re walking the dog on or that, like, why, why do we care?

Well, but I’m, but I’m a really safe driver. I still wear my seatbelt every time I get in the car. You know, so I mean, if the tool, you know, and, and I do say that, I mean, with the sidekick, that is nice because you have that tool right there with you. You know, let’s say if you’re gonna use just the, you know, just the slip lead version of it, you have that opportunity to, you know, to go back to that tool.

But I, I just don’t, I don’t know what the infatuation is with, with that concept, you know, it’s like, yeah, that’s great. And of course our goals are to be lighter, gentler, calmer, quieter. You know, I feel like that that should be part of the training process, but I don’t feel like if it, if it builds confidence for the owner and the handler and it builds confidence and comfort for the animal, it shouldn’t be a problem.

I think too many people have created. Too many people, trainers, and some owners have created these sort of unrealistic benchmarks or, or landmarks that tell them that they’re being successful. And I think one of ’em is how quickly they can get a tool on one, how quickly they can get behaviors out of a dog with or without that tool on.

And then how quickly they can get the tool off. 

Right. 

And, and again, the reality is the dog oftentimes is gonna be the one to dictate all three of those. Yeah. If we’re doing it, if we’re doing it, you know, in a way that’s gonna work and give us lasting results for that dog, we shouldn’t have these, um, again, unrealistic benchmarks in our processes ’cause they’re just gonna get us in trouble.

’cause it, I just feel like people rush to ’em because they’ve set ’em in their mind. So now they’re in a hurry to get to it. 

Yeah. Well, and that, you know, for the sidekick, I mean, definitely a lot of people are like, oh, it’s a gimmick, it’s a quick fix, it’s this, it’s that. And I, you know, it’s like, can it fix something like, just like your wife, I mean, she took the dog out in a walk, you know, and, you know, and had great results.

But, you know, for me, the real deep implementation of it, you know, like that, that’s kind of, for me, just the novice side of doing it. But the deep implementation of it is true change and long lasting change. You know, with or without the tool, you know, you get better behaviors in the home. Just like, uh, Matt was asking, you get better behaviors in the home, you get a calmer overall dog, you get a better relationship because of the communication that’s happening.

So, you know, there’s definitely, I feel like those kind of different levels with all tools, you know, that it’s like, you know, and it doesn’t matter what the tool is, it’s really, there’s gonna be different, different levels of surface level of what this tool’s capable of versus like. The relationship and building.

And I feel like that’s where us as trainers come in and it is an art form, you know, of how we utilize the tools, how we teach our clients, how we utilize those tools and the education we put out there. You know, it’s not just in-person training, you know, now I’ve, I’ve stepped away from a lot of in-person training and you know, being able to put education out there for people to really learn how to use, especially obviously my tool in the simplest and most effective way is super valuable.

So they’re not just using it at this, you know, surface level, but that they can really get down to a much deeper level. But you know what, if they don’t want to and they get results like way up here, and they’re so happy because their dog is not pulling them down the street. Great. Let’s celebrate that too.

You know, like let’s celebrate it all, but make sure that we’re giving opportunities for everything involved. So it’s good. 

I think a lot of this comes down to that humans love process and whether it’s getting a tool on or getting a tool off, I feel like people get so set on a method and a process and people like steps, right?

And they like order. And so then as you just start creating it, and I’ve seen a lot of trainers that build their own prison, so to speak, where they have created this thing and then they do all these things with every single dog. And it’s, I, I think it come, obviously comes from a good place, but it comes from the place of I want order, I want consistency.

Well, and I think that’s, it’s good. It’s good and bad, you know, I mean there’s definitely, especially when there’s a process, you know, for me that’s my whole process is there is a process, but there is an arc form to that process too. You know, how, how you recognize when, you know, you’ve kind of gotten to a really good point in each step and how everything works.

You know, going through that. So, and plus it makes it easier to digest, you know, so if you’re the trainer that every time you meet with a client you’re doing something completely different, that’s gonna be, it’s just hard to replicate. You know, like I actually started this whole process because I wanted to train my other trainers, not just my clients, but I wanted my trainers to be able to have a simple and effective process that I could teach them to be able to teach a client very effectively.

So, I mean, I feel like there’s definitely a lot that goes into having systems and processes, but then still knowing, you know, the art form side of it is, is huge. And that’s, that’s what makes a, a good trainer. Great. 

I’ve definitely seen, it seems like trainers with more experience and better trainers are much more comfortable making major modifications as needed versus sticking to the process even when they see it’s failing that client or that dog.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I do, I mean, at least when working with dogs, I mean, I do some stupid, crazy stuff. I’m like, well, let’s just try this. You know? ’cause I, you know, it’s like you just know, like you see when the dog is struggling, you know, with a tool or a process and it’s like, okay, well let’s do this.

And then all of my, you know, trainers would look at me like, I had two heads, like, where did that come from? I’m like, I dunno, let’s try it. So it is, it is good. And yeah, it is, it is the great ones that, you know, I’m not saying that I’m great, but it’s, you know, it’s just being able to have that art form available, you know, and, and move more from that.

That, um, you know, intellectual realm into more of the instinctual one that’s gonna work a little bit better for that animal in front of you. So that’s really important. 

So moving back to the sidekick, specifically with it going over the top of the nose and putting pressure there, how does it work with a muzzle.

With the muzzle. Yeah, we just throw muzzles on over the top of it. Okay, so you can work with them, them underneath. It’s underneath the muzzle. Yeah. And I, I do work with, um, you know, all sorts of muzzles baskerville. I know people hate Baskerville muzzles for some reason, but it’s, oh, you can get bit through it.

It’s like, well, don’t put your finger in the dog’s mouth through the muzzle. Silly. Like, don’t do that. You know, we worked with those at canine every day. I mean, we had, you know, we’d have probably, you know, 10, 11 dogs out in our socials wearing, wearing those muzzles and Oh yeah. Sometimes people would get their fingers in the muzzles.

But the cool thing I will tell you is that it will fit right over top of it so that the goal for me when I have a dog and a muzzle is that I just want them not to be able to put tooth to flesh, but I also like the communication of the sidekick underneath it, so I just put a bigger muzzle on over it.

Awesome. Is that once a dog is conditioned to the sidekick, putting a muzzle on ’em is no big deal. Because they’re already used to having something on their face. So if you went to just the slip lead or if you had a dog, you know, that’s how we would condition is then you have a dog out in your social where they just have, are wearing the muzzle and they’re not messing with it because that fuss, or that’s the beginning part of working with, um, through the teach calm of the sidekick where they’re wanting to pod it, you know, they’re maybe wanting to roll around a little bit.

That is part of the process as well. And you’re gonna see that when you’re conditioning muzzle conditioning dogs, you know, unless you take a lot, a lot of time, unless you’re using a lot of food. I don’t always have that luxury in my facility. So once they’re conditioned to the sidekick piece of cake, piece of cake to put a muzzle on.

Good question. Jason, anything from your end? I’m, I’m just still thinking Muzzles and dogs in daycare and trying to wrap my head around, you know, the muzzle being down of the sidekick under. I’m assuming you’d have dogs loose with a muzzle on, like dragging a line or something from a collar. No, 

we don’t.

In our daycare we don’t this. I mean, the other thing that I super specialize in is dealing with difficult dogs in social groups. So, you know, I ran Saturday socials with my clients for over 15 years. You know, where we would see 200 dogs? Their owners before lunch, you know, in our Saturday socials. So that was, you know, something we did every single Saturday.

The only break we took was a little bit during COVID and because we ran our socials inside and then I got an outside yard. So there wasn’t a huge break even during COVID when we, uh, when we were running socials. So, um, so yeah, putting muzzles on dogs was just not a huge deal. I don’t have dog dragging lines.

And we do what’s called supportive shadowing to be able to condition dogs in our group. So I have a handler starting them, you know, in daycare in our process. Um, once the dog starts making good choices, engaging, disengaging, um, through that process, then, you know, then we have a transition period of them being able to come off leash.

They go from being a shadow dog. Which is a dog coming in on leash, on muzzle or both. And then they go into being a group dog, you know, or a yellow dog in our facility where they can be out with the group. Um, they have to be able to move through gates. So I mean, we’d have 60 dogs waiting at the gate to go out to go to the bathroom.

So they gotta be able to do that and they gotta be able to come back in at the same time. So we have a whole process. But I have a, I have an online course and I don’t talk a lot about this one, um, in IACP, but I do go to, uh, pet Boarding and Daycare Expo and this is a big one. So I have a daycare handler certification course called Keep Calm and Play On, and it is packed with everything from facilities set up to kennels to how we socialize dogs.

And we do run three different groups every single day. So we have small dogs and puppies party animals. You can guess those guys. So party animals, which is kinda like your younger adolescent dogs, your really rough play guys, and then also our adult dogs. And so within that course, I actually walk through how to integrate dogs into each one of those categories.

And I do, I, I lied. I do let small dogs drag leashes, but mostly it’s because they’re hard to catch. Hard to catch. So like if they’re, you know, and I don’t wanna put a lot of pressure on ’em, so my whole training process goes into my daycare. You know, I didn’t run a daycare because I wanna run a daycare. I ran a daycare because I needed somewhere for my really difficult dogs to go and socialize safely.

So the little guys, they’ll drag a leash just so that we can pick up the leash and be able to guide them into their kennel or guide them outside or move them around. But most, most of the dogs in our facility do not drag a line. They’re, they’re off leash when they’re ready to be off leash. And that can vary dog to dog.

Yeah. One of the things that I was, and I, and I’m sure it’s different for everybody, but. But one of the things I was surprised about when she used the sidekick with that particular dog that we’re working with now was mm-hmm. Just how quickly he accepted it. 

Well, that’s great. That’s good. ’cause not a lot do.

Yeah. It was for him, that’s the hardest part. He’d been, he’d been on a prong collar before. Um, that was part of the issue was the prong collar ’cause mm-hmm. He would just pull right through it. He did not care. 

Yeah. 

But yeah, that, that sidekick was a game changer for him. I love that. He’s not a huge dog, but he’s, he’s athletic and he’s strong.

Yeah. And they do, you know, a lot of dogs, you know, and we’ll do, we’ll kind of go back and forth sometimes. So like prong is another tool that um, you know, ’cause we get a lot of dogs without a face, so, you know, it’s like, oh, what do I do? I’m not just turning that dog away. I mean, obviously we’re gonna work with it, like either on the slip or usually we’ll, we’ll go to the prong and, you know, that issue of dogs being broken.

I mean, broken of anything on their neck where they just, they’re just so callous to it. They’ve been taught to pull and to react and to do all those things. So, you know, when you go from, let’s say you have a dog that comes in on the prong and has just been, you know, overutilized switching to the sidekick is a great switch.

You know, it’s a great switch to help them to understand, again, that pressure means something. Because right now this pressure doesn’t mean anything, you know, but the important part is getting them to the point where they understand that their release of pressure means something, you know, and no matter what tool it’s on, you know, we have some dogs that come in, you know, where the owners, they once again break the tool for their dog, you know, because they’re just letting the dog, because I don’t want constant pressure.

That’s what people think, is that, oh, it’s just constant pressure on the face. It’s not, it’s, the point is, you want the dog walking next to you, behind you on a loose leash, or, you know what, if you want the dog out in front of you, I don’t care. But I don’t want them pulling, I don’t want the constant pressure.

I want that loose leash, you know, I want the pressure to mean something. So. If we have somebody that comes in and the dog had been overused on a head collar, we go to the prong collar and then we help to reteach, and then maybe we’ll switch back. You know, maybe once we get that dog understanding pressure means something again, you know, reconditioning, I’ll tell you, when I first started doing a lot of not, I mean, I’ve, I’ve been doing workshops and shadow programs forever, but I used to do a lot of, uh, workshops called Dealing with Difficult Dogs.

So I would get, uh, a ton of trainers and pretty much every single dog would come in on prong and eco. Broken on it, you know, all reactive, all still pulling, you know, and because these are their difficult dogs, these are the dogs that they’re really struggling to get through, right? So in those workshops, and this was probably maybe 10 years ago, maybe 12, in those workshops, I was definitely changing the tool, you know, so I was starting to go to the HAL Tea or the Sidekick.

Now I do all sidekick. I don’t work with the halt at all, but the halt of the sidekick doing the transition. Now when I go to teach workshops, I have so many people coming in with the dog already on the sidekick, but broken, you know, so I’m having to do reconditioning or switching the tool. So, you know, it’s like, hey, but keep in mind, if you’re doing the same things with a different tool, you’re probably gonna end up getting the same results.

So. No, it’s, you know, oh, that’s, that was the name of the thing. It’s the Fool, not the tool. That was the, that was the one I did in, uh, 2016. It’s the fool, not the tool. But I mean, if you’re gonna let the dog continue to put pressure onto the sidekick the same way that you let ’em put pressure on this, it might not be as bad.

Like, it might not be as bad, but you’re, you may end up with the same results. Changing the way that you’re handling, no matter what tool it is, that’s what you’re gonna wanna do, is teach that dog, rehelp that dog to understand that you know, what pressure and release means so that they start recognizing, thank you for being fair and consistent.

’cause it’s not fair and consistent to hold constant pressure on any tool. I don’t care what it’s, you know, like, like if it’s on a harness and it’s, it’s dragging you down the street, that’s still not fair to the dog. You know, it’s, I don’t care. I don’t care that it may be more comfortable than choking themselves, you know, on a flat collar, but it’s still not fair.

It’s, Hey, let’s teach the dog how to recognize, because that’s, that’s how they naturally wanna be anyway. They don’t, they don’t wanna live under constant pressure. That’s not, that’s not what they’re meant to do. They’re meant to avoid pressure. So we just have to let them know that we know that. I know it sounds so simple.

If it was that simple, we’d all be out of a job.

So simple. It’s just so simple. Jason. I’d figure it out. 

It’s kind of the 

temple. 

Yeah. Well it’s, and I will tell you, so I do have a certification course for trainers, right? And I put in a beta test group. These are all people I thought that understood my tool really, really well. You know, really well. Like, I’m like, all these people are gonna crush through this course and people submit videos back to me.

So it’s, it’s, it’s really intensive. It’s a three, well, six month course now, but, um, but it’s really intensive and they start submitting videos back to me and I’m like, you don’t know how to work this tool. Like you don’t, you’ve been to like six of my shadow programs. How do you not know how to work this tool?

And so, you know, the, the concepts, what I find from trainers. Going into using the sidekick is they try and morph what they know into what this tool is. And I had, I had one trainer, I won’t tell you his name, but he is an ISEP member. And he is, and he is great. He’s amazing. And at week six, this is like, this is usually my breakdown week for most people as they are really struggling, not really struggling, if they can’t let go of how they used to train dogs.

Not that I’m, I’m not asking ’em to completely forget everything I’m saying, add more to what you know, but you can’t bring it through this program with you. You’ve gotta kinda let that go and walk through the program. By week six, we had a really big heart to heart and I’m just like, well, maybe this isn’t for you.

Like maybe this isn’t for you. Uh, this particular person was like, oh, no way. I’m gonna figure this out. And so then he went back, he literally stopped trying to morph what he was doing previous to what I was trying to tell him to do, which is a thousand times more simple. That’s the issue is a lot of times we overdo it.

We overdo it. And with this tool, people overdo it all the time. You don’t have to overdo it. It’s so stupid simple. So once he did that, he called me the next week and he’s like, wow, I did it your way. Literally the way I’ve been trying to get him to do it for six weeks. I’m like, he’s like, I did it your way.

And you’re right. It’s so much more simple because he was trying to overdo it. Overtalk the dog over, touch the dog over, treat the dog over, you know? And and I was just like, just shut up. Just stop doing all that stuff. Just make it simple for you. Make it simple for the dog. And when he did that, he saw how much better the results got because the dog wasn’t being so confused by our over input into that situation.

And I was like, well, good. He figured that Heather. 

Could you expand on that a little bit? I’m curious, so you, you dove a little bit into what overdoing it meant in that scenario. So lots of talking, lots of treats, lots of markers, I’m assuming. What would you like to see different there? What’s the right level of training?

All of none of that. 

Okay. 

None of that. All of none of that. Which for trainers, that’s why I said trainers are some of the hardest people. Like a lot of dog owners come into this with no preconceived notions. So they are just like, they get it like that. But as trainers and especially high end obedience trainers really struggle.

’cause they’re like, what do you mean I’m not talking to the dog? What do you mean I’m not rewarding them for this? What do you mean I’m not doing that? What I mean by that is the leash is doing all of the communication that the dog needs. It’s that simple. With obedience, we’re asking the dog to come up to our level of communication, our crazy body language, our expectations of what they want, of what we want from them.

In this process, we’re coming down to theirs and we’re saying, Hey, when I put pressure on, the only thing I want you to do is put your butt to the ground. That’s it, or lay down. I’m not even asking you, just pick a position. I don’t care. But it is a submissive posture. If I’m over touching Overtalk, overtalking is a huge one because if I ask a dog to sit as, I’m just waiting there.

Like when I first start, this is the teach calm process. When I first start, I’m literally just holding pressure, just the weight of an apple, giving the dog something to think about, man, what is this thing on my face? What am I doing? If I’m holding too much pressure, it’s gonna push ’em in a fight. If I’m holding too little pressure, they’re gonna get it off.

So it is finding this nice balance of giving them just enough to think about alls I’m doing is giving them enough time to use that mental energy to say, what do I have to do to get this pressure to go away in dog language, if another dog has its mouth over the other dog’s face, this dog goes into. A lowering of status by either putting their butt down or laying down, or even rolling over.

Right? The only thing I’m asking for is for the dog to go into that lightest form of submission, which is putting their butt down to the ground. As soon as they do that, I release pressure. But if at that point I say, good, I’m taking the dog away. I’m the distraction to the dog being calm. I’m adding fuel to the fire by either touching, talking, treating, marking, any of those things is gonna take the dog back up a level.

If I’m asking the dog to be calm, I don’t wanna do something that’s gonna take them away from being calm. And food does not create calm unless it’s conditioned to create calm. But that’s not common, you know? And some dogs, obviously, they’re not even gonna take food. You know, most of the dogs come in, they’re so stressed, panicked, raged that they can’t take food, you know?

They literally just can’t take food. So I’m not. I don’t need to take that time to condition them to eat food from my hand. Like I’m terrified of spiders. I would die before I allowed a spider to feed me. You know? So just saying, so to create that, you know, to create comb, I don’t want to be the distraction of comb.

And so when you put all of that onto the dog, or you mark that as soon as they’re calm, you know, and for me, I may be standing there for 1, 2, 3 minutes, you know, waiting for that dog to put their butt down, you know, and just like I said, you’re just using enough pressure just to give them something to think about.

You’re not holding them up off the ground. You’re not, you know, you’re just standing there calmly and quietly. Once they put their butt to the ground, the reward is the release of pressure. And that would’ve naturally been the release of pressure anyway from another dog to say, okay, I get it. Okay. And then it starts to trigger that where they go, okay, that makes sense.

You know, let’s say they stand back up again. Okay, great, I’m just gonna apply pressure again. Now they’re gonna get it a little bit faster. And the better you are with your release of pressure and the better you are at being calm and quiet, the quicker they’re gonna get it. So I’ve tried this process with food.

I’ve tried it with food where I’m using food, you know, getting ’em, conditioning it on, getting ’em into the sit position. And what I find is that I don’t get the submissive posture the way that I do when I’m just using pressure. Like I don’t get, ’cause you know how like when you ask a dog to sit, but mentally they’re somewhere else?

That’s the difference with this is mentally and physically, the dog is right next to me. Oftentimes with a sit position, the dog is mentally already out the door. So when you ask the dog to sit at the door, but then you go to move forward and the dog bolts through. The dog was never there with you. So for this process and this training, I’m really asking the dog to be with me.

Not in just a physical position, but physically and mentally together. Man, hope I took the short route, long route to answer your question. But it’s, it’s simple, but it’s not, I mean, that’s the thing is it’s simple, but it’s not. And especially when we wanna put in more of what we know because we think we’re helping the dog in this process, you’re not helping the dog by doing that.

You’re actually hindering it. You’re not giving the dog the opportunity to do their homework. It it is. You know, Matt, you got kids do their homework for them. If you’re getting the dog, you’re telling the dog to sit instead of letting them wait it out, standing there waiting and thinking, what do I have to do to get this pressure to go away?

And instead, you tell the dog to sit. You cheated the dog out of that homework. You cheated the dog out of that mental wear down to say. I’m gonna put my butt to the ground on my own versus, or if you too quickly push the dog’s butt down, which will help guide the dog. Let’s say I’ve got a dog standing there, 1, 2, 3 minutes.

It’s not moving. I want to help them to understand that when they go into this position, the pressure’s gonna go away. I will help to guide their backend, but a lot of trainers just wanna rush it Now. They just wanna get ’em into that sitting position. But yeah, that’s, that’s how I see it. And it works. I mean, I, I sold the multimillion dollar business on that concept.

I’ve never taught or taken an obedience class in my life, but yet I have a tool, a technique, and a process that has helped to save tens of thousands of dogs over over 30 years. 

So I think when, when I hear that you know everything, but how you’re using the sidekick, I feel like some of the pushback on these tools is seeing how, especially pushback from balance trainers is seeing how people often use a gentle leader.

And the way I’ve generally seen it used, and it’s definitely not 

a general leader. 

I’ve seen them used with. No care, no real plan. They’re like, I usually see ’em used as a feel good product where it’s like these other things are mean, this one’s not. Yeah. And maybe it helps the dog walk a little bit better, but I always call it duct tape because the second you take it off, the dog didn’t change at all.

Right. And it’s, the trainers I’ve seen use them very often don’t have any focus on changing the dog’s mindset. They certainly wouldn’t use the word submissive. That would not, that’d be a, that’d be a bad word. And this, this 

is my battle. I mean, you’re, you’re clutching on my exact battle through my marketing is that people call it a Jenna leader.

It’s not a gen leader. Like a gen leader is very fixed. So all head collars are not created equally. You know, if I came on here and we start talking about shock collars and I am, you know, like your faces would drop. Like that’s exactly the same way When people start calling, like anything that I use a gen leader because it’s a different type of head collar, it’s a different form, it’s a different function and it, it has no release of pressure.

It comes from the bottom of the head and the actual training of every head collar. For the last 40 years from when head collars were first started, the training process was meant to turn the dog’s head, to keep them from looking. This comes from the back of the head, creating that calm pressure and every reason that you.

Don’t like head collars is every reason I created the sidekick and everything that I am struggling with with marketing is because of the fact that the gentle leader put it out there where it’s like, it’s gentle. It’s not this, it’s that. It’s like, no, I utilize my tool using pressure and release. Is it aversive?

Is it, you know, this is it. That, that’s the, that’s the conversation that people wanna have with me is, you know, how do you train it? So if somebody’s uncomfortable using it and training it in the way that I want to, they can use it and train it in the way that they want to, but they’re probably not gonna get the same results.

That’s, you know, kind of it, but yeah, I am, it’s a big struggle because I do use pressure release and I’m not the one calling in a general leader. You know, people are like, oh, it’s a general leader. You’re, you’re gimmicky marketing. I’m like. It’s really not what it is. Like, check out anything I train about this.

So it’s, you know, it’s, it’s definitely trying to change the narrative as far as like, what it, what it looks like, and also the whole training process, you know, like I was talking about earlier, is that it is, it starts at the leash, but it ends at a calm dog in the home, you know, a, a calm dog that you can live with.

That’s the whole process of it. And it is not just a gimmick, it’s not just a bandaid. It’s not, it’s not that, but the preconceived notion of it is because of all of that marketing that the other companies have done that I am currently having to, you know, kind of have, have not really battles over because they’re, they’re leading in this, but I want there to be.

You know, those kind of head collars and then the sidekick. Like, I want the sidekick to stand out as its own brand identity. You know, as far as what it does and how it works and why it works, instead of falling into that category of slap it on and you’re good to go. Even though it can work like that.

Like it can work like that, you know? But I don’t want it to be just that. And that’s where the education part comes in. 

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I think the, I mean, the methods obviously make a huge difference, right? And I’ve never heard someone who’s huge into head collars spend much time talking about getting a calmer dog. And like I said earlier, certainly would never use the word a submissive dog, right?

So it’s always in my mind, just been duct tape hiding the issue. Yeah. So I can see why you have so much success with it, because. You have a well thought out training method to go along with it. 

Yeah, and it’s, you know, and the difference, you know, there is obviously a difference between training and management, you know, and when I think about the two differences, you know, between training and management, there are certain aspects of, you know, head collars where it’s management, right?

And that is the majority of head collar out there. And harnesses, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of products where it’s just that is just management, just to keep the dog from really hurting you or hurting themselves. This is training because training is changing, you know, the behavior, the long term outcome, this and that.

And, and anytime that I give presentations about it, I do talk about the difference between training and management and it, it is training because as soon as you are walk, as soon as you’re getting through the concepts and the dog is understanding pressure on and pressure off. It’s happening, like it’s magically just happening.

You know, the dog stops barking as much, the dog stops pulling. And one thing that drives me absolutely insane is that in marketing we have to use no pull. Like, just because that’s like one of the top searched things out there, right? No pull. So it’s, it’s, oh, it’s a no pull le it’s this. And I’m like, it just makes me cringe because that’s like a side effect of all of the really amazing things and the mental stuff that this, that this tool can do for the dog.

So it really is more than just no pull, it literally, no pull is just a side effect. But to get into that market and for people to have the experience, they have to be able to find it in the first place. And if I’m gonna once again gate, keep some of these things. You know, I’m gonna be like, okay. But yeah.

Can it stop pulling? Absolutely. Can it stop reactivity? Absolutely. Can it stop aggression? Sure. Can it stop? Anxiety uhhuh? So, yes, it can do all of those things, but yeah, it can be frustrating and you know, just trying to figure out a way to help the sidekick stand out. But I will say the biggest thing has been the, the trainers that I have met through IACP and a lot of the people that have come through IACP and getting, just giving it a chance.

Like just giving this tool a chance, you know? And I feel like I’m super supportive. I’m very approachable. Sometimes I get told I’m intimidating. I don’t ever mean to be, but, but, you know, I, I wanna help guide people and, you know, the IACP has given me that family and that network that of people that know, like, and trust me, you know, I mean, I’m going, I’m going to a conference, I’m going to the A PDT conference.

I’ve never been to that. You know, for me, that’s a, that’s a very different audience that, you know, they’re, they don’t know, like, or trust me, you know, or even going to other retail shows like Super Zoo and things like that, those are always very like retail based. And so. It’s, it’s hard to get people to know, like, and trust you and IACP, like coming through the ranks of IACP.

The way that I have is, I feel like IACP is and are the trainers that are helping to change the narrative around this tool because they’ve been open-minded, curious, and willing to give it a chance. And when they do and they see there is, you know, just like you did Jason with no, you know, with no real like effort into, hey, maybe there is a, a really, a more simple and effective training process to this.

That’s what gives this legs and that’s what has given this, you know, this product and this tool legs. And, you know, I definitely look forward to keep keeping working with the IACP and keep educating, you know, those head collar haters out there and be like, let’s go man. Let’s just give it a shot. Put it in your toolbox because there’s gonna be a day that you’re gonna need it and you’re gonna wish you knew more about it.

You know, where you’re just like, oh man, I, I wish I did know more about it. ’cause I feel like that tool could really benefit, this owner could really benefit this dog. So, and education is key. IACP is all about education, so I feel like it’s, uh, it’s always been such a good match for me and for the sidekick too.

Matt, now, you know how she gets all those people to follow her around at conference, 

right? 

She intimidates them. 

I do. I intimidate them and I actually pay ’em like checks at the end of the end of the conference. But it’s, you know, it’s stuff like this. It’s like the same kind of conversations or, you know, one of the biggest things is what people do is when they incorporate the sidekick into their training programs and processes, they find huge success with dogs that they were not finding success with before.

You know, like that’s the difference. And so I feel like those people are so supportive of me because I’ve given them a key that they didn’t have before. You know, where they’re like, wow, I couldn’t get anywhere with this dog and now I can get everywhere. And then, then you layer in, you know, a six month old lab puppy that’s just excitable and you get ’em walking on a leash like that and you’re calming their mind and you’re able to use eye contact and body language to get ’em to move away from the door when you’re walking in with an arm full of groceries.

You’re giving people back sanity, you know? And so that’s, I think that’s why, you know, I get all these people, I buy a lot of drinks too. That could be it, that could be it too. Just kidding. But no, I, I feel like I’ve, I’ve mentored a lot of people and I, you know, I’ve, I, and I really love, I love my ICP family, so it’s, you can’t get rid of me, ever.

You won’t, you can’t. 

Let’s talk camel’s for a second. Sure. Do these have a sidekick on them? How do you walk the camera? Well, they wear 

halters. Yeah. I mean, they wear halters, uh, they wear halters. And let me tell you funny, I, I just gotta go over this because I post a ton. Of content about my camels. I also have a Texas longhorn and a donkey.

And these guys, I do not hesitate to post anything about these guys, like nothing. And my camels, so my Texas longhorn has a nose bit, so he’s got, that’s where the reigns attach is in his nose. So it was implanted, and I hook the reins in his nose. And then my camels have a nose peg, which is another thing implanted by a veterinarian.

And so then they have a line that comes down and that’s like that, that leverage point for them. And keep in mind, those are 2000 pound animals. My camels are about nine feet tall. You know, when they’re, when they’re holding their heads up. So, but I’ll post about that all day long, you know what I mean?

Like I’ll post about that all day long. Rarely does anybody say anything. But the second I post a video of like putting a little bit of pressure on my dog with a sidekick, the internet blows up, you know? But yet I’m like, oh, I’m using, you know, like this. But, but people are so curious about it, and they also can’t argue with me because they don’t have a Texas Longhorn that they’ve trained to ride.

They don’t have camels that they’re training for riding and walking and going out to fairs and parades and festivals and nativities. You know? So it’s like, I, I find it so much easier to post content about that, because it’s, when it comes to dogs, everybody’s an expert. Everybody’s an expert. I’m, look, dude, I, I had 1500 dogs go through my own home.

I, my, most of my adult life, I own six dogs of my own. You know, so it’s like, at the same time, you know, not just, you know, I’ve owned probably over 40 or 50 dogs at this point of my own. And so that is, that just blows my mind how quickly people can jump on you about that. But then when it comes to these larger animals.

People, I feel really safe putting out any type of content about ’em. I mean, I even, I even posted a video of like opening, like literally using a razor blade to open a abscess on one of their, on one of their necks. Like the vet was out there. Nope. All positive comments. But you do anything about dogs, it’s one thing, but, but the camels are part of my shadow program too.

So like when I do my shadow programs and my workshops, I mean, I’ll bring everybody out to my place and I’ll be like, look, remember how we talked about handling the dogs? It’s not about force. It’s not about force. It’s about getting them working with you. It’s about getting that mental connection with the animal and with the camels.

The transition of working with the dogs for a couple days and then coming out as a finale working with the camels is you cannot force a 2000 pound animal to do anything. Even no matter what tool you have on them, if you do not have a connection with an animal, they’re not gonna do it. So helping people to understand like how their body language plays a role, how their movement plays a role, how their slight pressure, you know, ’cause it should be 90% should be.

All of those other things, zero to no pressure, body language, maybe a little bit of verbal here and there. And then 10% should be physical. You know, that pressure on whatever tool you’re using. And with dogs, oftentimes it’s the opposite. It’s 90% physical control and pressure and, you know, trying to force ’em to do all these things.

And then it’s 10% of their mental capacity, which just we’re dumbing down dogs, making ’em think that they’re so simple. So we’re dumb and they’re not. And so when people come out, I’ve had so many people tell me that that was so impactful in how they start working with dogs because they realize, you know, even a 300 pound dog, you can manipulate that thing.

You know, you can, you can manipulate a dog like that size. I mean, it’s not as easy, but you can’t do it with camels. So I love, love, love having people come out, um, especially from Australia. You know, I’ve had a lot of people out from Australia that have come out that have never handled camels, and then they come to me and they’re handling camels.

I’m like, this is so great. So, so yeah, if anyone comes out and, well, I gotta figure out how to do shadow programs where I’m at. I feel this, where I moved is very gorgeous, but it’s out in the middle of nowhere. But, you know, I’m thinking maybe doing masterminds or something out here and definitely incorporating the camels.

But I do teach camel clinics too. So I have a camel clinic called the Practical Camel Academy, and that’s really fun. I just did one a week ago for some of the local ranchers, ’cause I’m also in a very cowboy town. So there’s a lot of the local wranglers came out, they’re all horse guys, you know, cowboy hats and chaps and threw ’em up on the camels and taught ’em all about ’em.

Yeah. So I, I love incorporating camels into, into what I do. And I feel like working with other species, um, whether you’re working with horses or cats or rats or camels or donkeys or anything like that, I feel like it’s important to. Get out there and kind of challenge yourself a little bit. ’cause dogs, dogs, for me, I love, I love working with dogs.

I love handling dogs, but I really like challenging myself with something that’s gonna make me rethink how I handle dogs. And I feel like that’s super important. 

Well, I’m gonna ask the question a five Yearold would probably ask at this point. Great. Camels in my mind, live in the desert. And now you’re saying you live somewhere that’s quite cold.

Yeah. Do the cam, do the camels handle that well? Is that a struggle for ’em? 

Yeah, they actually, if you think of camels in general, the desert is not always hot. So camels are some of the most adaptable, I, I would say, the most adaptable animal to any type of environment. So they’ll grow a thick coat, they can handle really hot and really cold temperatures.

Of course, you still want them to have shelter where technical, we’re getting ready to build our barn for ’em here, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, you still want ’em to have shelter, but they do fine. I mean, and I also do have a battery in camel as well, so that’s a two hump camel, and they originate from Mongolia.

So man, he’s like Fabio out there in the wind. He’s like, oh, this is the best. Like, he loves the cold weather. Um, and they’ve acclimated pretty well out here. We moved him out in June, June, July, I dunno, sometime around then. But we moved ’em out and they’re, they’re loving it. We’ve already had snow. Uh, we had a bunch of snow not too long ago, and it’s a, it’s twenties in the morning here.

I live at 8,000 feet, um, above sea level. Uh, yeah, it’s good. But yeah, they’re super adaptable. They do, they do really well. But I get that question a lot. Your coat 

thickens like a horse. 

Yeah. Uh, way thicker though. I mean, like thick, you know, thick. And then in the spring they’ll shut all that off. So that’s why I love having Camel clinics because for each one of my camels to get that coat off of ’em, it’s like brushing a hundred huskies.

So all those weirdos that love to brush out dogs, I love having ’em come. ’cause the camels get their coat off and you can do stuff with their coat just like you would with sheep hair, you know? So you can make jackets, you can make, uh, fiber, you can make, I mean, you do anything with it. So, I mean, I’ve got a couple hats made out of my camel’s coats.

Um, and people love it. I don’t, I don’t sell it, I just give it away. ’cause they’re all, it’ll just get tossed in the garbage. But, uh, people make some really great stuff out of, uh, camel coats. But I’ve got, yeah, I’ve got three camels now. I sold one before I came out here. He didn’t think it was a camel. It was kind of like, um, like five week, like puppy syndrome, you know, like where they, they don’t get the proper socialization at a certain age.

I tried to integrate him for years, five years. I tried and he was like, Nope, I’m not a camel. But he just missed that very critical developmental window to be social with camels. And so he just never associated with ’em. So I, I gave him, sold him to my other trainer. But he likes, uh, I don’t know that he likes being alone, but he definitely doesn’t like being with camels.

So you’ll learn a lot. You’ll learn a lot in hierarchy, like how they, how they exist together, you know, what order they like to walk in. Um, how they, how they bromance together. Like they, they have their little, their little quirks who’s in charge. It’s awesome having my own little like National Geographic right out my window.

Something tells me you did not pick them up on Craigslist. What, where does, where does one Facebook acquire on Facebook? What. There’s lot of camel, 

there’s a lot more camels out there than you think. Um, and there definitely is a really cool camel community in the us. Um, actually this weekend I’m going to the Southwest Camel Conference, which is in Vegas last year.

I took two of my camels This year I moved further away, which sucks. Uh, but that’ll be probably 20, 30 camels there and people come from all over the country. Um, and we just hang out in the, in the, you know, Nevada desert and we go trekking and riding and educating about camels and yeah, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a fun thing.

But yeah, honestly, Facebook, I just joined a Facebook, I joined that Facebook group, the Southwest Camels, uh, conference, Facebook group, and made some friends there. And I got my first camel, he was four weeks old when I got him. I learned that’s a bad idea. Same, same reason of not to get a five week old dog.

So I learned that was a bad idea, but then I was like, oh, well that camel needs a friend. ’cause I learned that ’cause he needs friends. He can, he can’t learn from horses, he can’t learn from donkeys. They need other camel friends. And so, so I had to get another camel. That was my excuse to my husband. I had to get another camel.

But then I, that camel needed a friend. So then I had to get another camel, and then that camel needed a friend. So I ended up with four, but, but I did downsize. So I’m down to three right now. But yeah, they’re really fun. And they’re mentally, they’re almost exactly like dogs. Almost exactly. They’re just bigger, a little slower.

But, um, and even the, the difference like the bactria is very, very stoic. The dred areas, which are the one hump guys, those are kind of like your golden retrievers. Like if you’re gonna get a, a camel or two, ’cause you have friends. If you’re gonna get a couple of those, what you want is you wanna make sure to get something like that because that is your golden retriever.

Obviously I don’t care, I don’t have bulls, they’re all castrated. But those are very, very biddable, very easy to train, super easy to handle, bond super quickly. Your back trans are more like your Caucasian shepherds, like super independent. It’s their world. You’re just living in it. Like you’re lucky if they even look at you, but rock solid when you want ’em to be.

So it’s, you know, definitely they have their own personalities and traits that come with them, which, you know, probably people don’t know. 

I feel like we’ve covered the gambit today. We covered. Head collars in general. We covered the sidekick. We covered a little bit of actual dog training and some camel knowledge.

You’re welcome. Yeah, I mean, I’m just a plethora of information, like a black hole of knowledge of some things. 

Anything else you wanna try to cover before we start wrapping up? I 

don’t think so. It was fun to kinda get to chat with you guys and finally get to, to jump on and, you know, just do something else For the IACP and I, I do have, coming up, I’m gonna be on the, um, I’m doing the webinar for Rehab Reality, which I originally did that presentation.

I was super pregnant at the IACP in 2014 in Virginia. So I gave that presentation there, but I’m, I’m redoing it as webinar. So I hope everyone, uh, who’s watching this gets to join us and if it happens to be after that, I hope you catch it. ’cause it’s a rehab reality. It’s a really intensive topic about how to deal with a very emotional topic of working with difficult dogs, but a very tangible approach to that.

So I hope people tune in for that and, uh, we get to talk a little bit more dogs and through my experience of working a very long time with a lot of very, very difficult dogs. So that’s what I, that’s what also got coming up. 

Well, you mentioned a few times about the IACP just being focused on education, and so I’ll just take the time to thank you for doing that webinar and having good content is so crucial for education stuff people actually want to watch and can learn from.

So thank you for taking the time. 

Yeah, no, I’m, I’m really excited. I get a little nervous to do stuff like that, but I, but it’s such an important topic and, um, it’s definitely time to get revamped too, so it just kind of pushes me a little bit to, to update some of that content that, you know, I kind of think, oh, everybody knows that, and then I realize, no, there’s just a whole new generation and I wanna make sure to keep educating, you know, and, and mentoring and helping those coming up in the industry.

And that’s always been my, it’s always been my goal and I can continue to do that and I hope to get to do it for many, many more years to come. So I’m happy to be able to do it. Awesome. 

Yeah, I was just looking it up. De December 11th, 12 Central. December 11, 12 Central. 

I’ll be there. 

This will be live long before that.

Sure. Yeah, I’ll be ready. Alright, anything else from your end, Jason? 

No, I’m glad. I’m just glad we got, got a chance to sit down with Heather and I got a chance to learn more about that sidekick. 

Yeah, definitely check it out. Yeah. And I do have, I have that course, so it’s become Your Dog’s Hero. It’s $67 on my website and it’s good for trainers.

Curious about the sidekick and obviously dog owners. So, so really check it out, it’ll, it’ll open your eyes up a lot as to how that tool works and how I train with it. ’cause guess what, it’s probably a lot different than what you think. So, uh, so definitely want you to check that out. So thanks you guys for having me.