Welcome to Dog Pro Radio. Today’s guest is Bill Church, also known as Bow Wow. Bill, welcome, bill. Thank 

you, Matt. How are you? I’m good. How are you? Doing awesome. Doing awesome. It’s a, a great day, and I appreciate you guys thinking of me and I, and I’m honored to be here and I look forward to our conversation.

Yeah, likewise. So funny enough, I started working on a little intro for you and I turned to chat GPT and I said, help me write an intro. So I wrote one, I was like, this is pretty good. And, but it felt familiar to me like I’d read it before. So I pulled up your website, it literally took your about section word for word.

It just copied all of it and is like, here’s your intro for Bill. So I scrapped it and I wrote my own, because I didn’t wanna plagiarize your website. If anyone wants to know what the original bio looked like, just go to Bill’s website, go to the about page and And that’s what chat GBT came up with. Yeah, 

that’s ba bow wow.

bill.com, you guys. 

Alright, Bill’s a dog trainer with years of experience doing dog training stuff, classes, boarding trains, et cetera. But a lot of you also probably know him from his live stream where pretty much everyone you can imagine from the dog training world has been on there. So name a well-known trainer and odds are they’ve been on, uh, Bill’s livestream, which is pretty cool.

So props to you Bill, that’s not an easy thing to build or to create, and you’ve done it. So congratulations on that and I think that’d be a fun thing to talk about today, just how did you get to where you are now, because that’s a, you look at the guest list for anyone who’s not familiar with Bill and you’ll be pretty impressed when you see who’s been on there.

So thanks for making the time and thanks for coming on the show today. 

My pleasure, man. Yeah, and that all started me doing these live streams. Actually, the inspiration for the live streams happened when I was at an IACP event. Really, and just sitting around a round table and talking to these dog trainers and just wishing that we, we had recorded our conversation and I thought to myself, man, if I, if a younger me watched this conversation, then, I mean, I could, you just learn so much by talking to people that are passionate about what they do.

And you can tell pretty quickly when you’re talking to somebody in real time that they’re, they’re passionate about what they do and they know they’re knowledgeable. And it’s very important today in a world with the social media that a lot of these posts are curated and they, they, they, they show you what you wanna see or the, or what they want you to see instead of the truth behind what got you there.

Or just, this is a small snippet of, of, of this overall behavior that I want to highlight. Uh, it’s, it’s important to, to, to, to realize that that is a curated aspect of this industry. And just like when my clients talk to me, they’re like, oh. When I imagine pe my dogs going to the bow. Wow. Beal Ranch. I have a few acres up here in Washington.

They, they imagine like a doggy mecca, you know, or, or like a, a paradise here where nothing goes wrong and, and the dogs are, are all getting along and, and everything’s good. And I’m just like, man, that is, that is, that is not the case. You know, that we, as, you know, people that, that have chosen to work with the thing, inner species communication.

It’s important to realize that dogs will be dogs And even as dog trainers, dog professionals, we encounter the same problems and the same issues that our clients do. And I think that it’s important to, to network with people that do the same thing that you do. For one, you realize that the frustrations, the problems, and um, the, the things that happen that are hard to manage or overcome are also happening to other people.

And so, you know, you’re not alone. And the other aspect of getting together with other colleagues is to realize how much you really like these people, man. You know? And that’s, that’s important because you gotta have a network. And I said this earlier, and I say this all the time. Your network is your net worth.

And sometimes we have to take time as entrepreneurs, and I find through these live streams that a lot of, most of these dog trainers are, are not just dog trainers, but they’re also artists. They do, uh, paintings. A i i I, I have a glass blowing studio here, so I I do glass blowing. I mean there, there’s so many aspects that this is an art and a science and it’s just, it’s important to have that, that network of people that you can fall back on, um, just to keep your, your, your battery charged.

And so you always remember why you’re doing this and that you actually, you like the people that you’re doing this with. 

And you hit on a lot of stuff there, bill, that I’d love to talk through, but I guess let’s talk about conference for a second. So obviously you were at conference, well, I shouldn’t say obviously you were at conference this year.

It’s obvious to me ’cause we spent a lot of time chatting there. Yeah. Uh, but you, you were at conference, it was great meeting you. I we’d never met before. Um, and you recently joined the IECP, even though you’ve been going to conferences for years. Do you wanna walk through a little bit of kind of your journey with the IECP?

I think it might be cool for people to hear. 

Yeah. The first conference I attended was 2010. So 15 years ago, and I’ve been to 11 conferences with the one included. Uh, there was a little time in the pandemic that I didn’t go, and just like I said, that like I, I went and I actually paid extra to go because I wanted to network.

I wanted to, to just get around people and I’m just not a joiner, right. I’m, I’m kind of a lone wolf and, and I always have been. I I kind of marched to the beat of my own drum. And, but I, I understand the importance of, of getting together and, and, um, the one thing that stood out to me with IACP is that you can bring dogs.

And that to me is a huge, I mean, is a huge exhibit, ex exhibit, I guess, of the philosophy that we expunge is actually real because we actually bring our dogs into public. We bring them into a large event. And I know, I, I realize that there’s other associations that they do not allow the dogs. And I think that that is a, a pretty glaring, uh, problem as, as dog professionals, uh, that we’re not allowed to bring dogs into the space that we’re learning to work with dogs.

And, and so that’s the one thing that I really loved about IACP when I first joined. I’m like, oh, cool. Well, there’s a bunch of dogs here. And Matt, I learned. You know, I’d, I’d watch these dogs and I remember watching Barbara, I can’t remember her last name right now, but maybe I’ll Google it or, or search her on Facebook.

But I remember her on my very first conference that, uh, she was sitting there with this Rottweiler, and this Rottweiler was Q Cool as a cucumber. And I was just watching the relationship that she had with this dog. And I was like, man, that’s, that’s amazing. And I’d watch other dogs and I was like, dude, I want that.

Like, how did they learn how to do this with their dog? And so you had the opportunity, uh, that we have a lot of time together, and so you can approach these people and talk to them and, and see where they, where they, how they got to, where they are in the relationship with their dog. And so that you can, you can either learn from them or learn from who they learned from, um, and, and talk through, uh, you know, the, the, the experience that they’ve had to get to the point that, that they, that you see.

And you can also compliment ’em too, man. I mean, and, and it’s also like a breeder aspect, like, where’d you get this dog? Like, there’s so many things that you can, you can talk about. Um, and so that’s, that’s. One of the things that kept me coming back to the IACP and I saw it grow and grow and I met more and more trainers.

And that’s the other aspect of this is that you see yourself in the younger trainers that come. And that might be another aspect of this that recharges you because then you see a, a, a little bit of yourself in, in the new, new people. And if you can let them learn from your mistakes, then your mistakes become, um, they become transformed into something that’s actually beneficial.

And so I call it borrowing scars when you can borrow scars, like literally, I like that. Yeah. In, in the industry where it can bite you in the butt, right? Mm-hmm. If you can borrow scars from other mentors and, and people that have been in the industry way longer than you’ve been, uh, it it’s very helpful.

It kind of accelerates your progress of learning. And it’s, um, it’s a wonderful brain trust of like-minded individuals. And it was crazy to see that some of the people that I’m talking to have been training dogs longer than I’ve been alive. And now I’m that guy, right? I, I look back and it’s like 26 years, and now I’m talking to these kids that are in their early twenties, and I’m that guy.

Now’s. I mean, it’s a trip to, to think about because I’m the same guy. I just look in the mirror and I’m older and I’m like, dude, this is, this is, this is awesome. It’s crazy, isn’t it? Yeah, man. And so, but it’s, it’s a valuable thing. And during the pandemic, uh, didn’t go. And I saw that there was some kind of problems with the ICP, like there was, um, I don’t know, an event that was chosen that wasn’t the best or something, you know, I just heard, right?

You hear through the, the grapevine and that people, this wasn’t, this wasn’t the best conference. And, and then I saw the numbers were, we’re down a little bit and I was like, you know what, I’m gonna go check this out for myself. And so I saw Savannah, Georgia, and that’s a place that I’ve always wanted to go visit.

And I was like, you know what? I’m going. And, um, paid extra like I always do. But during this event, I was blown away, man. I was blown away because I have been to many events that are, uh, really well structured. And this is what I saw. I saw that this was put together very well. And, uh, the, the venue was amazing.

The people that I saw were amazing and it just kind of reminded me, oh yeah, I love this. And I was sitting there and I realized that the dog industry needs this. And that this is a very important, I mean, this is a very important institution, I should say, or, or organization, because we are not strict on the philosophy that we present.

We allow people from all, all sides of the dog industry to come and speak. And I think that it’s a very welcoming environment. And speaking of Michael CIO and, and seeing his post afterwards about how, how, um, respectful it was and the conversations that he had, and I made a decision, man, I gotta join, even though I’m, I’m not a joiner.

I said at this pla this, this organization is too important. I have to put my support, uh, behind it. And so I did a live stream with Jason and, and joined right then and there. And I am a member member in 1 7 9 9 9. So use that. Uh, if you guys join, make sure you use my, so we can get the credit for that. But, um, but man, I’m honored to be part of this and, um, I think it’s very important and it’s, um, a wonderful experience to go to these conferences and that’s extremely valuable.

So if you’re on the fence, come and meet man. Shake hands with with me, shake hands with Matt and, and all your colleagues and, and recharge your battery. 

Absolutely. And I would encourage anyone who’s thinking about it attend conference next year, it’s gonna be amazing. And to your point, bill, I mean, conference this year, I think, you know, in Savannah was amazing and there’s a lot of people that worked really hard for it.

But anyone who’s, you know, going next year or went this year and wants to thank somebody, I can tell you three people in particular, Jason, Marlene, and Fabian, three board members went. They go really above and beyond. I mean, everyone works really hard for conference, so I don’t wanna minimize anyone else’s role, but they work really hard.

You know, Fabian does all the AV stuff, brings a whole crew of people with them. And I don’t think anyone really knows this, but the IACP used to pay a lot of money for av. You can imagine what that would cost. And Fabian just does that himself, brings his own staff there. And it’s a, it’s a huge kind of gift to the IACP, to not have to spend that money.

Marlene works really hard to find the venue, you know, to make sure everything’s gonna go smoothly. And you know, Jason kind of led everything. So those three people did a lot and they’re doing a lot as well for this upcoming year. So it’s gonna be amazing in California for sure. 

Shout out to Jason, Marlene and Fabian.

You guys are awesome. Keep up the good work. What was Matt? Let me ask, lemme switch the tables here. What was your favorite, uh, aspect or experience at this conference? 

So, one thing I would say, bill, which is exact, you already touched on this, but watching the dogs, you know, as a dog trainer, when I hear group of dogs, my thought is dog fight, right?

Unless it’s like, I love the mug, sorry, I just switch it to my, I don’t really drink with my left hand, 

but I gotta, 

you know, like unless you’re at a dog training class, run by a good trainer, when I hear like this event is dog friendly, I think, okay, I need to watch my kids really closely. There’s gonna be dog fights, there’s gonna be chaos, but all the dogs there.

I saw one issue in five days total with I don’t know how many dogs, mixture of little dogs, big dogs, Dames, dalmatians, pits, shepherds, everything. And I saw one issue and it was not a big one. And to me that kind of just shows you how good there’s a lot of really good trainers, right, that are able to raise and train dogs that are good enough to be in a hotel with other dogs for days on end.

And so many people that worked at the hotel would walk by and like, why are all these dogs so quiet? Everyone’s just like, they just like walk with their owner wagging their tail. What’s up with that? I’m like, well I don’t know that person that just walked by. But clearly they’re a good dog trainer, right?

Yeah. So I think that’s really powerful for people to see. That’s what we’re all achieving for our clients on a daily basis. But to see that many, that people that have achieved it for themselves, it’s really cool. ’cause that’s what dog training’s all about, right? Is to raise a good dog that can live your, you know, live life with you and go places.

And to see that many dogs that can do that, and people aren’t mad at their dogs and their dogs aren’t stressed out, and it’s just fun. Like, and to me, that’s what dog training’s all about. So really cool to see. 

Yeah, the proof is in the pudding, right? Mm-hmm. And I often tell my people don’t believe a word I say, your dog is going to tell you if I’m full of, if, if I’m full of it or not.

Right? It’s like it dog. Let the dog be the expert here even because we, we are human beings and we could sit here perfectly still with our voices and communicate a vast variety of abstract ideas. And the dog doesn’t, doesn’t communicate that way. I mean, the dog knows you before you say anything to that, to that dog.

And, and, uh, and so that’s, that’s the, the true proof here, right? And that’s why it’s important, uh, to realize that a lot of the stuff that you might see is, is curated, is sometimes not real, right? When you meet these dogs, you’ve just seen a little snapshot of their life where they have some issues that, um, you might not, you might not see because it’s, you know, it’s, it’s unpleasant to see.

It’s unpleasant to experience. And, and that’s where I. I gotta videotape more of my stuff and I’m, I’m working on it, man. I got a Patreon page, but I, I just feel, maybe it’s because I didn’t grow up in a age of social media, but I just feel awkward. Like I’m, I’m fine with sitting in front of a, a computer camera and doing these live streams, but when I’m working these dogs, it just, uh, I, I don’t know.

I, I’ll work on it like, like videotaping more of my, my dog training stuff. But, um, there’s also that messy middle too of like, where I’ve had my clients and I’ve had some pretty affluent clients that I, that, that don’t necessarily want, uh, the problems that they’re having with their dog to be made public.

Right? Right. And so that’s, that’s, that’s probably the main aspect is that I do offer a, a, a very high degree of privacy with my clients that I work with. And I don’t, I don’t tell people who, who I’m working with. And, and I, I’m very lucky that I have, uh, you know, that that clientele that where I fly all over the country and, and I’ve stayed in some of the most amazing spaces.

I’ve been on these TV shows and worked with celebrities and. At the end of the day, man, they’re just human beings too, just like you and I. And they, they’re having an issue with their dog that they need help with, and that’s why I’m there. Um, and so it’s, that’s something that I wanna work on is, um, putting more of the how, how I work with these dogs.

And, um, but, uh, it’s, it’s, to me it’s just a little awkward. 

Yeah. It’s, it’s hard, right? When with social media, I think one of the things that’s a struggle is if you’re working with a dog, you should be connected with that dog in the moment. And that’s one area I struggle with, where I’ll go to record something and then I think like, well, I wanna explain so much to the camera, but I also need to stay connected with this dog right now.

And that’s a hard thing to figure out. Well, how do you manage that and still be fair to the dog, right. And stay connected with them and try to explain what you’re doing. And that’s a, that’s a tough thing sometimes to figure out. 

Yeah. What I’ve learned, Matt, is, is I just work the dog. And a lot of times, because it’s also like I’m working this dog for, I mean, sometimes I’m working for like three minutes, but sometimes I’m out, especially with my service dogs, right?

And that’s something that I’m very passionate about. I’ve really fallen in love with service dog work. But that is a pretty long period of time of. You know, just existing with that dog, teaching that dog how to navigate the human environment and, and for long periods of time where I want this dog very stable.

And so I use time lapse. Like I’ll set up the, the phone and I’ll put on the time lapse so that, that helps with the longer training session. And the other thing that I’ve learned is, or I’m learning right now, is the final cut Pro. And we just talked about the editing that on this platform that you’re using, uh, where I can do the voiceover afterwards.

And so that’s something that is, uh, I think that I can do. But it’s also just about plugging the stuff in the computer, pulling it all down, seeing what clips up, what, you know, it’s, it’s a lot for somebody that I just wanna work with dogs. And, um, and, and it’s important that like if I’m, if I’m walking through and just explaining everything that I’m doing that’s affecting that dog as well, and a lot of times I’m telling my clients like, silence is golden.

Duct tape is silver, right? Because they’re talking way too much to their dog. And, um, and just like I spoke about how we communicate, where we use our voice, the dogs communicate with, uh, touch tone, space speed, uh, and sometimes we have to be aware of all of that with our, our body language and what we’re doing, uh, and to be talking and explaining through.

Everything that you do, uh, can have influence on that training session. I mean, it’s not detrimental, but it’s, it’s still, and, and it’s also like, that’s not the head space I want to get into. I wanna observe and see for the dogs live in a world of split seconds, right? And there’s, there’s nuances of their behavior that I want to pay attention to.

And I really wanna focus on 

moments within 

moments. I love that. Yeah. Moments within moments, right? And, and, and not only that, but to capture the victories that we have or to watch when this dog might be approaching that threshold of overwhelm, right? And, um, and also paying attention to our environment, right?

We have people that are, their dogs are off leash and, you know, being idiots and they’re trying to come up to ours. So we have to be an advocate for the dog that we’re working with, or, or other dogs. And especially, I have a bunch of little dogs, right? And so I, I wanna make sure that they’re, they’re not getting trampled or, uh, you know, but by a bigger dog.

Um, so there’s, there’s a lot of aspects to consider, but I’m working on it, man. And, and hopefully we’ll see, we’ll see that improve, uh, in the future. With me, 

it’s, it’s a lot of time. And like you and I were chatting about earlier today, you have to figure out where you put your time, right? There’s only so many things you can do.

So tell me a little bit, you mentioned a few minutes ago, you travel around the country, how much do you travel? Is that a big part of your current role and what’s that like? 

Absolutely, man. Well, and, and let me before we pass by this, you said something huge about time, right? Time is spiritual currency, right?

That’s something that we can never, ever get back. Like the green stuff, the money that we pay our bills with and, and all that we can make and we could lose, but we can make it again. Uh, but the time is something we can’t get back. So it’s very important. And that’s why they say, um, I mean time is money, they say, but they also say, uh, what are some aspects of this?

Like, um, pay attention, right? Spend your time wisely, right? And so that, that’s huge. Um, now traveling, man, I love traveling. I love it. I, I, um, I travel with my clients, right? They’ll, they’ll book me out and, and it’s so funny, dude, because like a lot of these clients are very affluent and they want what they want.

And I’m like, well, I’m in Seattle, you’re in Idaho, you’re in Florida, you’re in in, in Philadelphia. I got, I got clients that all around the country and they’re like, we want you, bill. And so I had to figure out how do I make that work? How do I, what’s the amount of money that’s go, that’s, that makes sense for me to leave my ranch here and to.

Just drop everything for a few days to come and work with you. And so I do charge a premium and I, I do charge, I mean, it, it’s anywhere from a thousand dollars to $2,500 a day and, and then paying, uh, they pay for flights and, and, uh, per diem, all that stuff that I, that I need. But it’s, it’s something that is valuable, man.

What, just like I say with the conference and, and getting together and actually seeing things unfold in real time when you’re in the environment, I mean, you can’t reproduce that on Zoom. You can’t, right. And so it’s, it’s important. Sometimes I’ll, I’ll travel to the client’s place for first session, and then we’ll zoom for a couple more, and then it’s like, okay, I’m ready.

I’m, we need, I need to be back out there. Or I have, I have a colleague that I tru I know and trust and I can refer you to, and I always offer that, but they’re like, no, man, we want you. And I’m like, okay, you can have me. But the other aspect of my travels is I love to travel to see my colleague. Right. I love to go to different countries and, and it, what’s, that’s how I know I, I’m doing what I love is because I go to other countries and I watch dogs right on my time off.

I’m here playing with my dogs or traveling when I can with my dogs. Um, and then when I’m working, I’m actually working to help people with their dogs. And, you know, I started glass blowing because I wanted to do something that wasn’t dogs. Now I make little dogs out of glass. 

I was thinking that was gonna be the transition.

Yeah. 

And so I’m a nut dude. I’m, I’m a fanatic and it just, I just can’t help but get away from this stuff. So I might as well embrace it. And, um, I like seeing dog trainers and I like meeting them and, uh, just watching them work and meeting their dogs. And, uh, I recently went down to Florida just to hang out with Omar von Mueller and watch his dog monkey paint.

You know, the dogs are painting. That’s another aspect that’s so cool about the dog industry is that there’s so many niches that are a mile deep dude, and like an inch wide from search and rescue pipeline detection to protection, to companion to, I mean, there’s so many bedbugs. I mean, there’s so many aspects of how these dogs have come into our human existence and benefited our lives on so many levels, dude.

And it’s, it’s pretty cool. And not just to study the people, but also to study the history of dog training and, and, uh, where we’re at. And then go and finding, um, you know, these new innovations and technology that allow us more efficient communication, like the ecos and the, the treat and train. Dude, I have a shaper here, which is Eco Technologies is making a treat and train.

And I have the first prototype here that I’m testing at my place now. Cool. And, um, and so we’ll be, we’ll be meeting and working through, um, you know, and, and reaching out to other trainers and showing them this thing and being like, what would you like to see on this? And, and having these ideas and, and not only that, but leaving an avenue open for innovation on these products.

And so that’s, that’s what’s cool about being in that. So, can 

we dig a little deeper there for a second? Okay. Are you allowed to talk about the product or do you need to leave it pretty general? 

I don’t know. I don’t, I mean, I’m sure I am, you know, I didn’t, I wasn’t even thinking that we were gonna go there.

Dude, I should go. I’m just curious. I should go get it. Lemme go get it. Yeah, lemme go find it. I’ll be right back. 

Feel like I’ll have to entertain the audience while you’re gone do some singing or dancing. I’m redoing my floors 

here and so like, everything’s so moved into the kitchen, you know, like my whole living room is, is outta shape here.

So keep in mind that this is not, this is the, the, uh, the very first iteration of this. Okay. So we have, there’s eight different settings here. We have a, there says a shaper, right? And it looks kinda like a coffee maker. Right. It’s, it’s nice. And, and we have up here a container that we could put a scent in, and then we have the holes up there for a little scent box.

Right. And then we have the food dispenser down here. And then this top has another section. Can you hear me okay? Even though I’m far away from the mic. Okay, that’s good. And then this has another section here, and then here is our bowl. So everything, whoops, I drop some in there, everything connects, and then this bowl, right, it can connect here.

Mm-hmm. And so we can remove the bowl. So the thing will drop down into the bowl there and uh, and then everything stores away. And then it can be sealed up, uh, for use outside. We can hang it up in a blind, in a corner or whatever We’re using this for, if we’re using it for, um, you know, even going through like a tunnel, we could put it on the other end of the tunnel and have it beep or, I mean, there’s so many aspects of it.

And then the cool thing about it, it actually works on the eco technology remotes here. And so, okay. So 

you can tell that wind reward? 

Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And not only that, but we have different settings. I wonder, I don’t know if I have any juice in this collar here. Okay. Yeah. And so, here, let me turn this on.

I should have, if you could see the, let me turn it off and on the camera so you can see when I do turn, see the lights around there? Mm-hmm. And so we have the lights there. And then let me see if I can, so here, I, I think I have here, lemme see if I can get the, ’cause I had a couple pieces in there. So we have one setting.

There it goes. Did you see it? Yeah. So then, and then we also have the other setting here. So you see, dude, again, my, my dog’s gonna love it. I’ve, that’s, I’ve got 

very dog trainer questions here. So first one is, what’s, what’s the range? Is it the same as the range would be for the, the EEC traditionally? 

Yep.

Yep. And so this, that’s, it’s like a half mile range or something. Yep, yep. So that’s the game changer about this one. Yeah. And we can have four units, right? So we can pair four units on this, right? And then we can leave this outside. And so the treat and train is a very valuable tool, but the range is very short.

Um, the, the top is easy to, to knock over and get to get food everywhere where this has actually that screw on top. Right. Um. And, and some things that I’m gonna be making is that I want to, I want the tone to be much louder, right? Because of, if it’s far away, um, and that, that Dell can hear it, right? And so we can drive the dog forward and let them know it’s the dog’s idea and they’re on the right track to get, uh, rewarded, right?

Yeah. And so we can actually put a little gasoline in their step. Um, I mean, there’s so many applications to, to this. We just wanted to improve the idea. And, and it’s Greg Van Keran and Brian Clays, um, from, from Dallas, Texas. Those are the two, um, main designers of this. And now I’m the guy that is taking it.

And because I’m the dog professional, Brian’s also a dog trainer. Um, but they really wanted my input on how to improve this and things that we can add to it. One of the things that I’m also suggesting is that I want to put a little channel here that we can po like instead of just the bowl right there, that we can put a hose on this to maybe put it into a crate or direct the, the food.

Um, and just like it had, like, I didn’t have the bowl on there, so I got dog food all over the floor here. My dogs are gonna be like, heck yeah, when I get ’em to the office. Um, so they can drop and scatter on the ground or we can actually leave that bowl right here, right? And so we can feed that dog randomly.

We can utilize the scent box up top to drop a treat, but I also wanted you to see that we have a continuous mode. Yeah. And we have just a intermittent mode where it rewards that dog right then and there. Um, and, and we’re gonna be working on taking suggestions from trainers on what they like and, and what they wanna see on this as well.

Now it takes like people that don’t realize manufacturing takes time. And the first iteration of this, after, after we do all the settings and figure out the button configuration and all that stuff, uh, we will be reaching out to trainers. I don’t know if they’re gonna, we’re gonna have it ready by next conference, but it’s gonna be, we’re, we’re looking at the pool of trainers that are, and, and professionals that are in IACP to get, get some of these in the hands of trainers.

It’s gonna be at a wonderful price point for dealers. Um, that it just makes sense that they include it as something that VA added value that they can offer to their clients as well. And use, use for their, their own training regimen. 

So let me ask another question. I’m sure a lot of trainers are wondering, especially if they’re not familiar with this product, so it’s a ta so there’s an eco as well, right?

So that there’d be an eco on the dog that could stand vibrate and tone. Yep. And then you’d have this as well that can deliver treats or tone. 

Yep. Absolutely. So a lot 

of possibilities there. 

Yeah, a lot of possibilities. And just like I said, like with the settings that you see here, right? There’s eight set, there’s eight switches right here on this dial.

Right? And, and we’re, it’s not gonna have eight, eight do eight, uh, settings on the, the actual unit. But we’re leaving a pretty open end way that we can innovate with this and that we can add features in in the future. Um, that, that just makes sense that when we hear back from the, the industry on what they want, what works, what doesn’t work, and go from there.

That’s pretty awesome. I’m assuming there’s no camera tied into it, right? 

No, but hey, I’m putting that on my notes. I’m meeting this week with the team and, um, yeah, we talked about it a little bit, but I, but yeah, you just reminded me of that. I mean, in the future, who knows, right? Yeah. And, um, and the cameras are getting so small and, and it’d be cool to have a camera, I mean, even on the dog too.

I mean, that’s what’s so cool about 

Yeah. 

About techno technological age. Right. And, uh, and even ai. Right. And, and robotics. And I mean, and, and even just this travel man, like, just know as a dog trainer, like you’re not pigeonholed to, to anything, right? You, you don’t need permission to try new things to innovate.

And you also don’t need permission to fly around the world and to learn from others. And you don’t need permission to have clients all around the world as well. Like, like do it. And especially innovating with your dog man, like Omar von Mueller. And I said this on the podcast that I recently did with, with Ivan and Omar.

I believe he’s one of the best, if not the best dog trainers in the world. Just the way that he thinks and the way that he, he, he kind of evaluates this relationship with his dogs and, and how he gets the behavior that he gets from his dogs. It’s just so awesome. 

Tell me a little more about that, like specifically, what are some things you think that he does differently than the average trainer?

He just, just the way that he thinks man. Like he was talking to me about when I was there with him, about the next step of like. Like doing puzzles with these dogs, letting the dogs sink and, and, and watching how they respond. And of course he knows the importance of timing and reward schedule and all that stuff.

And, um, I mean, just, I, I remember I have DVDs when I was a young, like, really? How old 

are you? Holy smokes DVDs. Shut up, Matt. 

You have DVDs too. I know it. VI have a VHS tape somewhere around. Maybe not, maybe not. But that’s, I mean, I remember calling ’em up and doing c CD ROMs and DVDs and different things that I, I wanted to learn from him and, and, um, he would send them to me because I mean, he does these, these, these movie acting dogs, right?

And, and for those that don’t know that are video gamers in the, the video game Call of Duty, they have a dog and that game, and that’s Omar’s dog. And it’s just cool to see he’s, he’s got the only dog in the world that’s won an Oscar ugly for his performance. Um, and, and just be like, look, this is what I want.

Make it happen. Right. And, and that’s what I like. I was like, oh, wow, man, let’s, like, wouldn’t it be cool if my dog could walk up to this point, turn around? Like, wouldn’t it be cool if my dog could run out to that mailbox, get my mail and run in, like remember growing up and like last he’d go get the paper.

Sure. Like, and, and that was just like the, the magic of owning a dog of, of, of also just like this inner species communication is, is, is just like, we can take this to a level that is one, it’s functional, right? If I, if I have somebody that, that needs assistance with picking up objects off the ground, if I, if they need assistance with, uh, retrieving all that stuff, then a dog is, is, is an amazing companion to have that actually brings benefit and, um, confidence to their life.

Um, but it’s like, how do we make that happen? And when I watched him doing these things with dogs, I was like, dude, how is this possible? Right? And just like with the ICP when I’d watch people with their dogs, I was like, I wanna learn from them. And sometimes I hear that from my clients when they see me with my dog.

They’re like, I want that what you have with your dog. I want that. And so then, then that’s my, a lot of times they don’t, they just, my clients just wanna be like, no man, I just want my dog to be cool. I wanna take ’em camping. I want my dog not to try to. Look like they’re gonna eat every other dog in the world when we, when we walk by them on the street.

It’s very embarrassing. It’s like, okay, we can help you with that. But there’s some of the clients too that are, that, that wanna take it a step further. And, and, uh, that’s my goal too, is, is to help the clients with what they want. Right? And, and sometimes they just want the bare minimum, but sometimes they want a deep dive.

And, and it’s good that we can go there together. 

Let’s take a quick second to talk about the National Canine School for Dog Trainers. They have been a proud sponsor and a supporter of the IACP for over 20 years now. National Canine is in Columbus, Ohio, and they offer professional certifications and education for dog trainers.

Since 1981, over 2,500 people have completed in-person instruction and received their certification at the National Canine School for Dog Trainers. National Canine graduates have created businesses and all 50 states and in more than 50 countries and territories around the world. We invite you to explore what National Canine has to offer.

Please visit www.nknine.com for more information back to the show. Yeah, and just in general, the, the connections we have with dogs, it sounds cliche to say, but sometimes people don’t take enough time to really think about how amazing that connection is. And sometimes it’s almost indescribable. When you, and I don’t just mean love, but I mean like you look at all the things dogs can do for us and love to do for us, and you look at it and you’re like, this is not accidental.

Not even close. Right? There’s something much deeper there. And that’s one of the things I think is really, really cool. And you touched on this a little bit earlier of just all the things dogs do and they love doing it. It’s just, just amazing. 

Yeah. And if they don’t love do it, how can we do it where they do love to do it, right?

Mm-hmm. And, and that’s our understanding because there is a way to get dogs to do that, in my opinion, is not ethical, right? That, that it’s a very, um, what, what we would used to call it when, when it would make a, like you make the dog do. And and I remember I used to be that guy, right? I used to be the guy that would make a dog.

Do I I was heavy handed. I didn’t like that. I mean, I, I first started out as like purely positive and then I went all the way to the other side of the spectrum of like, oh man, this is, this doesn’t feel good. This isn’t, this isn’t okay. Um, I often tell people like, I owe a lot of dogs apology. And uh, you know, and, and, but it’s also, they’re so forgiving, man.

And they way more 

forgiving than people, that’s for sure. 

Yeah. We can learn a lot from them, dude, on how to forgive, how to live in the moment. And just take in our environment. And sometimes I’m on my phone, my dog’s like bugging me and I’m like, oh dude, you’re right. You know, and let me get off the phone here.

Right? Um, and we can learn from them. But it’s also, one thing I wanted to mention while we would talk is like, we always have to be learning as well. And there’s a lot of schools of thought out there that, that there’s these techniques that we learn. There’s these seminars that we go to and different camps that people, you know, firmly plant themselves in.

And, and they’re camps that are based on techniques. Techniques. And I just did a, a seminar for the canine conference. And the, the topic of my, my talk was slow is fast, less is more how remaining present will improve your relationship with your dog. But I actually, I expanded that with your clients, your dogs, and yourself, right?

And to take the time to not just learn these techniques, but to learn the principles of why these techniques work. And when you understand the principles of these techniques, it’s much more powerful because a lot of times if you only rely on a technique, you become a slave to that technique. There’s dogs out there that this technique is gonna work for.

There’s dogs that it’s, uh, it’s not gonna work for. And it’s important yes, to have the eclectic knowledge base of dog trainers and learn from as many people as we can. But it’s fundamentally important once we’ve learned from people a certain technique, that we dive deeper into that technique to, to realize the principle behind why this works.

Yeah. And you just touched on this briefly. I mean, different things work for different dogs, right? And this, when you were touching on, I think, extreme compulsion training a few minutes ago, compuls, that’s 

1. That’s the word. Thank you. 

Yeah. And it just made me think, and you know, all good trainers know this, but you need to respect the dog, right?

Mm-hmm. And know that every dog’s different and every dog’s gonna turn out different. Some have different things they like doing. And that’s something I’ve learned a lot over the years, is that you’re gonna have a job for one dog. One dog’s gonna love it. Another’s gonna hate it. Why try to force the one to love it as opposed to just finding something different that they do enjoy.

That’s right. Robert Cabral said, uh, something on one of his talks that has always stuck with me is like, we can’t curate that which isn’t present. We can only curate what’s present within that dog. We can’t make the dog something that they’re not. 

Mm-hmm. 

Right. And especially in the service dog world, man, I get people calling me all the time, like, they wanna make their dog a service dog.

And I tell ’em, that’s not possible because this dog is not going to like that. The dog’s not suitable for the task. Or, or just bringing them out into public in, in large amounts of time that the service dog is, uh, meant to do. But there’s also times that I, I have breeders that I, that I love and that I network with that have that I go and temperament test their pups, and I let them know, look, this, this dog is a very good candidate for service dog work.

Um, but yeah, that’s, that’s it, man, is like, we’re as dog trainers too, there’s a couple things that we need to realize. One, we’re not always getting the push button. Easy dogs. I wish, dude. Like, so sometimes you do and it’s like, man, this is a dream. This is why I do what I do. We, we get a vast variety of dogs that come across our, our paths, but we also get dogs that people need help with.

And sometimes we get dogs that pe that their owners need help with and then we need help with too. And so, and I can’t even count how many times I’ve been out in the field with dog and be like, huh, that’s interesting. Like, okay man, lemme take a mental note of this. And, um, and, and, and I’m always honest with my clients, man.

I’m always like, you know what? This is, this is atypical. This isn’t normal. Um, and I also am. I always like to acknowledge when I see PA behavior that’s not typical. I’m like, look, I wanna acknowledge the fact like, this is problematic. This is something that even as a professional that sees, uh, has worked with thousands of dogs, that this is something that I might need to go back into my network and, and talk to other dog trainers and, and share the video of, of what’s going on here or share, share the thing that I see here and see, see what suggestions I can get.

And so that’s, that’s the two part aspect of just the number of dogs that we see, but also the problematic behaviors and how to get a 30,000 foot view on what’s going on an observer view, uh, and seeing where this might have gone wrong. A lot of times it’s just with too, too, uh, too open of a structure, not as much structure as the dog would, would like.

Um, and too much affection. There’s, there’s a lot of things that happen as, uh, as us being human beings and nurturers by nature, working with a dog that is, uh, got a different brain and, uh, different wants, motivations as a predator that walks along on four legs and see the world through their nose and their eyes and their ears in that order, right?

So sometimes it could be the nose, ears, eyes. In that order as well. So it’s just important to know and to see where we can make the improvements and start to build that starting point that starts to, to get that change that the client is hi, uh, hiring us for. 

Yeah. And you know, you made me think there, bill, with what you were talking about that very often we, well all the time we don’t know a dog’s history, you know, even if they’ve been in a household with their owner, we don’t actually know the history, the questions you could ask a person like, Hey, does this make you scared?

If so, why? Right. You can’t ask that. Well, you could ask of a dog. You’re not gonna get an answer. And so sometimes, like you said, you see these crazy things and you just have to give it your best guess of, I don’t know why your dog is reacting like this in this moment. I could give you five guesses. Yeah.

Maybe one of them’s right. Maybe it’s not. And we have to be comfortable saying that. Right. And comfortable accepting that as a dog trainer. Right. That you can’t always look and know why he’s nervous right now or why he’s over the top. He’s learned that somehow, but who knows what caused it. 

Yeah. And realize that yeah.

This is over the top first and foremost. Yeah. This is, this is something I know. I can see why you’re with me not right now. Like, I could see, I could see, you know, I understand, right. Totally. Um, but the other thing too is like something that I is very important that I’ve learned from Jay Jack. Shout out to Jay, my buddy.

Um. Is to kind of get in the client’s mindset as well. Right? And I was talking, it just reminds me of like, I was talking to, um, a client about crate training. Their dog. The dog just didn’t like the crate and she never used it, right? But a crate is a wonderful tool. It gives a dog a, a space of familiarity where they can decompress as long as they’re comfortable in there, right?

And this dog, I didn’t think had containment phobia. I think that the dog just didn’t have exposure to that, to that crate. And so I was showing the, the client how to train the dog to the crate. And one of the things I suggested was put a high value treat in the crate and then shut the crate, and not with the dog in there.

And so now the dog’s interest is, is, is on the inside of that crate. Like, how do I get this, this, this treat? And um, and I said, I want that dog to get a little frustrated. I was like, how do I get in here? Right? Mm-hmm. And the client was like, why was, why would I ever wanna frustrate my dog? And I was like, okay, hold on.

We’re at an impasse here. I need to know what you think when I say frustration. And this is where J Jack, he gave me a wonderful idea. He is like, ask a client that they’re a director of a movie and the scene now calls for frustration. Tell me what that looks like to you. And so I, I use that, I use it all the time to get into.

Because we’re different people, dude. Like what? I see the world differently. And that’s a beautiful thing about life is, is uh, variety is a spice of life. And so I asked the client, okay, I want to know what frustration looks like to you. And she, and she told me, hiding in the closet, calling 9 1 1 because there’s like an ax murderer or something out there.

And I was like, that is not the frustration I’m talking about. Like now I want, now I’m the director and I just handed you a Rubik’s cube that’s unsolved and I want you to solve it. That this is the degree of frustration. Not only is it important to be honest with our clients and to kind of look back and, and to see like when this behavior might have happened and realize sometimes we’re not gonna realize, you know, when it happened or what life looks like.

But also to kind of see the world through that client’s eyes that you’re working with and, um, and to, to make them understand what you’re asking them to do. Does that make sense, Matt? 

Oh, a hundred percent. Because I think we all have words. We use that to you. Sounds very normal to someone else. They’re like, what the hell is this guy talking about?

And but you wouldn’t say it if you didn’t think it sounded normal, right? So of course it makes sense in your head, so without a doubt 

and yeah, makes perfect sense to you. And the other thing too is like. We have to use analogies like we are dog trainers. Mm-hmm. And it’s important that we understand that we’re talking like quadrants and positive and negative and, you know, we had ’em realize that positive and negative in the real world, it means good or bad.

Right. It doesn’t mean adding something or, or removing something like we’re talking about. And to stay away from the jargon when you’re working with, with clients that were kind of speaking over their head, they’re not gonna get it. We, we need to make effect change and we need, need to make them understand what actions they, they should take and why they should take these actions in a meaningful way that makes sense to them.

Right. And so I use analogies a lot of times I try to find out what they do and what their passions are. Yeah. I’m looking around their house, man, I see they’re a guitar player, or I see that they love to cook or whatever. And so now I’m like, aha. Timing music. Now I can meet them in wor their world and kind of bring them to my world in a way that really makes sense and makes them comfortable with moving forward with their relationship with their dog.

I think that’s great advice, and that’s something we train all the trainers on our team on constantly, is try to find some way to explain it. And like, I’ve never seen a guitar hanging up there, but my first thought was then you could talk through how hard it is to learn music. That’s what it’s like for your dog to learn all of this.

Like, could you pick up a guitar and play on day one? And obviously not. Right? And can your dog just all of a sudden be fully trained in day one? Of course not. That’s why I’m here. And for people to think about all the time they put in to learn that guitar. I mean, there’s so many good analogies with, with anything.

I, I like that a lot. 

Well, and with the guitar is like, what is the crucial element of learning this guitar? And they’re like, consistency. And I’m like, bingo. Right? I tell people all the time, like, your timing could be off. You’re rewarding. The dog could be off, but as long as you’re consistent, just like with that guitar, you, you’re, you’re gonna make mistakes on some days.

Some days you’re gonna be a little bit better, but as long as you’re consistent, you can train a dog, you can learn a guitar or you can, you know, uh, you can learn whatever talents you want to, but you have to be willing to suck at it at first. And, uh, and sometimes, you know, that’s, that’s the case, right?

His, um. But the consistency and, and, and getting them to evaluate through questions, right? And even if they’re doing it wrong, like, I’m like, I’m, I’m not like, no, you’re doing it wrong, man. This is, you’re so stupid. Grab the leaves from and smack ’em. No, I, I’m like, what do you, what do you notice? I’m like, well, okay, stop.

What do you guys notice? What do you notice about the dog’s body language? Now I want you to take a, a, a snapshot of your body language. What do you notice? Right? And, and questions. And letting them, uh, uncover the answer themselves. That’s important as well. 

Could you give a little, maybe dive a little deeper on that, because I think that’s a great thing for trainers to hear.

So you’re talking about basically pausing the session and having a client explain what they’re feeling right then, 

not necessarily what they’re feeling, but just to see what they observe, right? It’s like, okay, what do you think about this? What, like, what do you see in the dog’s body language that can improve?

And, and just pointing out things that are gonna kind of give them the eyes to see what I see. Right? And sometimes they don’t. And I’m like, well, what do you think about that dog’s head? Or do they see the ears back? You see that tail dropping down. Um, and, and just kind of getting in the moment with that client and also celebrating like, man, look at that dog.

Look at that dog pouncing around. Look how proud they are. Look how proud you are. Um, and, and sometimes like. When they’re managing that leash too much, right? I, I teach my, my clients that I want this smile in that leash, and I want the, the, the right hand handle in the leash mostly. And when they’re grabbing it with their other hand, uh, sometimes that, that, that takes up a lot of slack outta that leash.

And so when they’ll grab that with their hand, I’m like, stop. What’s going on right now? And they’re looking around, they’re like, I don’t know. And then I’m like, you don’t, what, what’s, what’s in your hands? You know, or something. Just make them, but you, you can be kind without be, I mean, you could be kind and still direct people and let them know that they’re wrong about what they’re, I mean, and, and, and working them through situations where they, they start to understand and start to make the changes on their own.

Because as a good teacher, it’s also important to realize that a, a, a good teacher becomes progressively unnecessary. And at the end of the day, we want to instill these, these skills with our clients that they don’t need me. I can’t be there all the time. And, and to chunk down the information. This is the other thing that’s so important with dog trainers is like, a lot of times we want to tell them, you know, what, what’s going?

But chunking it down, man. Focus on this one aspect. All right. I reminded, uh, do you ever watch the movie, the Karate Kid? 

Sure. 

Right. The old movie Karate Kid I’ve, um, where it’s Ralph Macho and, and um, how he is doing the wax on, wax off stuff, the painting, the fence and all that. And sometimes we have to focus on, like I was saying earlier, the principles behind the technique and getting that, that, um, muscle memory or, or whatever it is.

So we don’t overwhelm the client and we don’t overwhelm the dog. So they actually will do what we ask them to do. So chunk it down. And even though my clients are asking me, well what about this and this and this? And I’m like, that’s not, not yet. We will get to that. I promise you we’ll get to that, but that’s not right.

Now what I need you to do is focus on these things right here for about a week to 10 days and then on the next we’ll have another series of things that you’re gonna focus on and um, and then go from there. 

I like that you mentioned dog body language specifically as something that you would talk to clients about.

’cause I do feel like that’s often. Lacking where body language is discussed, when it’s extreme, you know, whatever, extreme fear, extreme aggression. But it’s not talked about with the average dog, at least from what I’ve seen all that often. And obviously, you know, you can predict a lot about what a dog’s gonna do by their body language in the moment.

And I’m sure you can look at a dog and you look and you’re like, he’s not gonna listen when you ask him to down and they ask him to down and he doesn’t listen. And of course you saw that coming, but clients don’t have that knowledge unless you give it to them. Is that a big part of what you’re discussing with clients or is that just kind of a, an example you were using there?

No, that’s a huge part. Huge. ’cause in our species communication, we communicate with our voice standing perfectly still. Um, where they’re communicating with their body language, they’re communicating with their tone with, I mean, but mostly body language, right? We can, we can look at a dog and, uh, and know if they’re uncertain.

We can look at a dog and know if they’re confident, if they’re, uh, excited, if they’re really interested, uh, and or if they’re calm and relaxed and reserved. And I don’t know where and when in human history, we, we got the concept that a dog that’s bouncing off the wall and outta their skin and being a manic, a maniac, basically just manic behavior, that’s a happy dog.

And that’s the only time that a dog is happy. And then when a dog is laying here down on my feet, that, that’s a sad dog. And so that’s another, like, I’ve had dogs where people come into my client or my, my class and I have my dog and a down stay up in the front of the room. And the dog stayed there the whole time.

And they’re watching my dog with concern. And I’m like, what’s going on with you? You keep watching. They’re like, I just feel so bad, you know? And I’m like, why? Like, this dog has got the best life and this dog is concentrating on just chilling and taking a nap. And I think I’m, I’m, I’m not sad. I’m happy.

I’m proud of this dog. And, and that’s another aspect of where we, um, have a misconception about what a happy dog is. And then putting human characteristics on dogs, right? And explaining away their behavior with, with Anthropomorphication, which is, um, a lot of times way off and some of it’s spot on. Um, but, uh, and, and, and just mislabeling.

What the dog is doing. Right. And like the dog’s guarding me. It’s like, no, that doesn’t look like guarding that dog is barking underneath your seat, pulling on the leash the other way. That’s not guarding or Right. And the, and I, I have to explain like, no, a good guard dog is sitting there waiting, you know, waiting to get their bite in and, and nice and calm and, and 100% present in that moment.

Um, and, and so that’s, that’s the other aspect is like mislabeling what they see in front of them, or not even paying attention, um, to, to what the dog’s exhibiting in that moment. Right. 

I mean, I agree with you. I think there’s an epidemic of not being able to read dogs in the slightest. And I don’t mean like as an expert would, but like you said, to look at a dog who’s manic and 99% of the population would say like, that’s a super happy dog.

Like, if your kid was doing that, would you call them super happy if they were like parkouring off of like the couch and the wall, would you’d be like, that’s a really happy kid, or would you be like, you’d probably, and I’m not suggesting you should do this, but you’d probably medicate that kid, right. And get him on, I dunno, a DD medicine.

And so I, I’m with you on that. 

Well, and, and we belong to an industry where we’re, we’re, we’re told we’re wrong by our colleagues. Like our, our colleagues will weigh in where it’s just like. Now that dog is stressed, how dare you do this or Right. And they don’t see, and just like with the curated, where we want you to see, there’s also curated content where people are going to attack it.

And you kind of have a, have a, have, have a thick skin and realize that we live in the emotional arena. This is important, uh, in the dog training world. We love our dogs, man, I love ’em. I’ve traded my life to work with them. Uh, but it’s important to realize that human behavior, people are 10 times more likely to act based on emotion than they are on pure logic.

And we live in the emotional arena in this industry. And so we see a lot of emotional responses with, with behavior, um, with the work that we do. And there’s that saying that if you get three dog trainers in a room, that the only thing that two of them will agree on is that the third one is wrong. And that’s another aspect of why I love IACP is because we get hundreds of dog trainers in a room.

And guess what? We, we cooperate, we get along sometimes. Yeah. We, we, we are be like, no, that’s wrong. This guy’s wrong. Or that’s, you know, but it’s, but it’s important that we do get it into a room and, and discuss these, these techniques or these ideas. But realize that we are in the emotional, uh, side of, of, of our human experience and that sometimes we, we can never think with our emotions.

That’s the other aspect that’s important to know. And sometimes we need to take a logical approach and observe that which is happening, and, uh, realize that our emotions can be false indicators and evoke, um, uh, a response within us, um, that that might not be true. 

It’s pretty deep. I feel like sitting on that in dwelling for a second.

Yeah, I mean, 

does it make sense though, Matt, you know what I’m saying? Like it 

does for sure. 

Yeah. 

You know, you, you touched on this for a minute, but man, dog trainers eat their own constantly. And like you said, you don’t see this at the IACP conference, and I wonder how much is the group of people and how much is just that you’re in real life and people are so different online versus in real life.

The vast majority of people are, and. I won’t get into my views on social media. I’ve got some pretty extreme, I have very extreme views on social media, but, uh, people like different, right? And when you, when you’re in a room with someone, you have that personal, real life connection that you don’t have when you’re watching a video they made or a post they made.

Yeah, man. I mean, I want to, I want to hear your extreme views on social media. I mean, I think that it’s, it’s, I mean, there is a separation, dude. Like even you and I, and there is a, a, there is an expectation of an amenity, like where you’re anonymous. Mm-hmm. Or you can be, and then there’s a trolling dude. I sometimes troll, not necessarily in the dog world, but I play video games and sometimes I’ll troll on a video game or something.

Like, like there is something that is funny about that, like there is, but it’s, um, there is, uh, an important aspect of what we do here. And, and we also have to remember too, that social media is an attention economy. And so if something, like, for instance, Matt, if you go to a restaurant and you love this restaurant and you tell people about it, three people will check it out.

But if you go to a restaurant and you have a crazy, horrible experience and you tell people about it, 13 people are gonna check it out or just like, just investigate. Like, what is this place man? Like, and so there’s, there’s a thing about like. Human behavior and social media algorithms that amplify when people are complaining, when people get reactive, just like with these reactive dogs, like with like they amplify this, they actually pour gasoline on it.

But at the end of the day, you guys, we have a, a, a, a animal that relies on us and we should be in this, all of us in this for the betterment of that animal. And when we have dogs being euthanized and when we have kids that are getting bit, and I’ve often said like, this is how I know I’ll be a success when with what I do, is that when I am at the end of my life, if I look back and I see the numbers of euthanasia, behavioral euthanasia especially have gone down, then the numbers of dogs, uh, of dog bite, uh, happen into kids have have seen a dent in those as well.

And until I see that, I’m still going forward every day. And so it’s important, even though human nature backed by the social media amplification of these algorithms. That are, are designed to, to get us to react and to quabble and to, to keep that fire alive of or to keep that, what would you call it? Not a fire, but like a dumpster fire, I guess.

You know, I like that phrase, you know, um, to take that, take that, uh, that notion that we are in this for the dogs and we can do better for them and buy them, and there’s a way that we can communicate without all of this nonsense. And I think that’s another reason why I don’t post too. I was, was just thinking about that.

It’s like, I just don’t want to, I just don’t want to have the energetic residue of having these people that, that literally have no idea what they’re talking about and no idea what they’re seeing in front of them and how it’s unfolding to benefit this dog to take the time to attack and my business myself or, or whatever.

Right. It’s, um, 

so you just used the word energetic, energetic residue, or I guess not word phrase. Can, can we dive into that a little bit? 

Sure. I mean, energetic residue, I call it brain, like that’s what happens to your brain when you try to multitask. It is like there’s, you can’t really focus, truly focus.

And I believe it was a book called Deep Work, how to Focus in a Distracted World. I love reading, man. Let me see if I can find this Deep work by Carl Newport, how to focus in a Distracted World. And, and that’s where I’ve learned about this energetic residue. And it takes up parts of your brain that is always kind of working and chewing through this stuff, right?

And when you want to focus and be 100% present, you really have to do that. And, um, multitasking is a myth. Like there’s, there’s certain aspects that we can multitask, but it’s not gonna be as, um, as proficient as if we were to shut everything down and to really get in what we call the zone, right? And our artists call this, and like, if I were to try to multitask when I’m blowing glass, guess what’s gonna happen?

I’m gonna cut myself. I’m gonna burn myself. I’m gonna like, there you have to remain. And I think that’s why I like these mediums that, that kind of force you into this, I guess I call it like a moving meditation where you have to remain present. And, uh, I think that we can benefit from that when we’re remaining present with our dog and not have to worry about how it’s perceived, but to worry and to focus on.

The relationship on how it’s unfolding. Uh, I mean, at the end of the day, man, I look back and I mean, especially with this political, um, climate and with COVID and all that stuff, and I was looking at some of the comments that people would leave and I’m like, man, I have no clue who you are. Right? And, and we, mm-hmm.

And social media, we have these people, like, I’ve never met ’em. I don’t know ’em. And I, when I know somebody, then I can report When I have rapport with somebody, it, it, and especially with my clients. And like that’s how I have a successful business, is developing this rapport. I know them, they know me and they know what I’m gonna ask of ’em.

And, and sometimes it might be uncomfortable by laying down these boundaries or putting structure or, or whatever it is that we’re doing with their dog. They know that they’re in good hands because I would not lead them astray. And it’s important, um, to build the rapport. And same thing with the dogs too, man.

I build a rapport with the dogs. I get to know ’em. Like if, if somebody sends me a dog for a board and train, I let ’em know like two or three days I’m just hanging with them. We’re not really doing any training too much. I’m just watching them. I’m letting them get the lay of the land. I’m letting them get a little bit more, uh, adapted to their new environment, getting them comfortable.

And then once we’re comfortable, then we’re off to the races that we’re rapport. Is is so valuable. 

Yeah. All the stuff you were just talking about, I read in a book once that they called it the Trust Bank and making contributions to the trust bank and that when you have that, you can then make withdrawals.

Right. But if you don’t have anything built up in there, you can’t. And that’s what I was thinking when you were saying you build a rapport with a client. Because once you have that real rapport, you make a mistake or you ask something of them, or you do something like you said about frustration earlier, where they think it was kind of weird.

If they trust you, they’re gonna talk to you about it. If you don’t have anything in that trust bank, that’s when you’ve got problems. 

Yeah. Or if I, and, and I’m looking at them too. I’m trying to build a rapport with them where I’m like, Hey man, I see that you’re kind of uncomfortable here. Like, explain what’s going on.

Right. And um, yeah. And yeah, trust Bank. And then we have Love Tank too. Like, oh, never heard that one. Yeah. The, uh, what is it, the languages, five Languages of Love. Right. A great book, man. For people that are in a relationship. Is like, there are different aspects that people get fulfillment and get people get their, their love tank filled, right?

Like the one’s are words of affirmation. One is, uh, quality time. Some people like gifts, right? That, um, and some people like physical touch and I can’t remember the, the, the last one. But that, but it’s, it’s important too to realize that dogs, they, some of ’em like quality time man, some of ’em like a little toy to play with.

Some of ’em like to be like a little treat. Some of them are don’t like treats. And those, I, I don’t know why, man, those dogs are just like, come on dude, like what, what? Help me, help you. You know? But, um, yeah, trust, love, respect, all of the, I mean, trust, be behind the rapport, you know, just like we have a cornerstone of a building right where it starts and then we build up that building all the way up to the sky.

Cornerstone of relationship is trust. We have to trust. And then once we trust, then we can build the other aspects of rapport, love. Fun, uh, relationship, um, experiences, and even going out and venturing in the world, coming back home together, right? It is like, uh, an aspect that is important. Um, and we can’t really do that unless we have a, a line of communication open.

Um, so we can communicate with the dog as we venture out into the human world. 

That’s some good stuff for people, people to ponder on there. So why don’t we shift gears a little bit and talk, let’s talk about you. So let’s talk about the bow Wow. Bill livestream. How, how did that start? You said you were at IECP.

Yep. And that was kind of like kicking it off, and then where did it go from there? Did you just call someone and say, Hey, let’s, let’s talk. How did you, how, how, what was that journey like? 

Yeah, man, I, so I was at, so first and foremost when I went to the first IACP, I was starting a, a magazine do coach magazine.

And, um, it just, I had this project that I put a lot of time and effort and I had a staff of people that were working with this. And it was a digital magazine. It was 2010, so it was like the still infancy of, of social media and, and internet. And um, and I wanted to build something that would leverage the knowledge of, uh, like this brain trust of, of, of trainers and dog professionals, groomers, trainers, daycare.

Owners, um, that I, I, I envisioned it to be handed out at rescues for free to people so they can have this line in on, on, uh, help that they can, they can utilize with this magazine. Long story short, it went belly up. I had a couple deals that went, went, I mean, they didn’t go wrong, but they never happened.

And I’m, I’m a debt free guy. Like I don’t, I could have lever or I could have gone way into debt and I’m so happy I didn’t. Um, because it, I just, I don’t, I, I’m not that guy. I, I want to, I want to build organically what I can and, um, and, and go along as I go instead of having too much debt. Anyway, then my at, at a time, my sister, um, she, she was, uh, admitted into, um, an addiction center and I had to take custody of her three kids.

Yeah. 

Huge. Um, and I realized looking at these kids, I was like, nobody’s gonna love these kids like family. And so you kids are coming with Uncle Billy. You guys are gonna come live with me. And so I took my bow, wow. Bill, van, I have a huge van. Went down to Oregon, got all their stuff, and, uh, seven, nine and 3-year-old kids.

And then that, everything that went on the, I mean, everything went on the back burner. The, the kids came first and we got them in school. We got them. Counseling and we got them, um, got them the help that they needed in a, in a manner, just like I preached with the, you know, training or anything. We we’re, we’re we’re structured, um, and learning about how to raise these kids and, and, uh, found out a lot.

And now these kids are grown. They have kids of their own man. They have really, I was gonna ask, 

how long were they with you for? Were they the rest? Just about a year. 

Just about a year. And then they went back to mom, um, and they’re still, I still see them. I’m gonna, and, and, um, and it’s a totally different relationship when they would come over like, Hey man, you’re at Uncle Billy’s house.

You know, you know what flies here and what doesn’t? Um, and I think that it benefited them. And the beautiful thing about having those kids too is that I went and I took them to my clients and I took them to really, really, really fancy, I mean really nice houses in estates that I was working with these clients.

And I’d introduced ’em to ’em and just to tell ’em, Hey, look man, it’s all in here. These people are no different than you. It’s just that they’ve made choices in their life that have led them to be successful. And I often tell kids like, pay attention to, to what you love. ’cause uh, eight years old, I love Dogs man.

And I’m 48 now. I still love dogs. And there’s certain aspects about your world as a kid that are gonna change. Like, you are gonna change, you’re gonna grow. And, and, uh, like the trees and the environment will change, but there’s certain aspects about yourself that will always remain the same that you need to pay attention to.

Okay. And even as a kid, as a young child, it’s important for you to know. And so I would take these kids out and um, and one day, one, one of my clients was like, you know what? Why don’t you go with the dogs? I’ll take the kids for the day. And I’m like, no way man. Thank like, that’s so cool. So I left them there and I come back and they’re like, laying by the affinity pool, drinking, drinking like little pellegrinos or whatever they were.

And I was just like, man, this is, this is so cool. Right? So to give them the, be able to give them their experience, this experience of, of just kind of seeing a different, a different form of what’s possible, right. And so, um, and I’d 

say those kids were lucky to not have to go into foster care and get family rather than the system.

That’s right. And even though, man, it was hard, dude. Like I had to table a lot of this stuff. I actually had to go, there was a thing called a tanf, I guess, um, where we actually went and got some assistance from the state, right. And it was only like 160 bucks, but we used every single penny of that. Right.

And I think that’s important too. To share this experience because I want people to know, man, like, like people need help sometimes. Like it’s not all, it’s not all funds and, and, but through those challenges we grow and through that struggle, we gain strength. And, um, and so don’t, don’t shy away from it, but also don’t embrace it.

Like get out of that. Like realize that like, like it can be a, I mean, sometimes it’s not a hand up, it’s a handout. And I see like there’s, there’s, it’s an interesting thing and we won’t get into that, but, um, but just have the fortitude of knowing, Hey, look, we keep eye, eye on the big prize, which is being successful, being, um, happy.

And, uh, most importantly living in living to that, uh, trying to structure our life where we can navigate to that passion that we have as individuals. So kids went back to mom after a bit and Jason Cohen had this new little thing and it was called like We Stream or something like that. And I just saw him on Facebook.

I was like, dude, what are you doing now? What is that thing that you have right there? And it was a live streaming thing. All right. And, and I went and signed up for it and I was like, Jason, you’re gonna be my first guest. I, I just, I called people and, and, uh, I’ve been doing it for, since like 2016. 2015, maybe 10 years.

And I would just reach out to my buddies that I made at IUCP and it was like, Hey man, I wanna talk to you. I’m gonna, I’m gonna send you this link. We’re gonna talk live on Facebook and we’re just gonna shoot the breeze. Like the inspiration was like Joe Rogan at the time of like, just having no, uh, no real set form.

Just let, let the conversation flow where it’s gonna go. And, um, I’ve been honored to talk to so many people in the dog industry. I mean, the Bellins, um, Tom Rose, I just did a one, a live stream with Michael Ellis. It’s one of my favorites. And that’s a beautiful thing about this. Matt is like, okay, do you want to hear the selfish, let me hear, let me give you the selfish reason why I started this.

’cause I wanted to learn from these people, man. And I, I was like, dude, this is a great avenue where I can actually learn from the best in the industry for free. And if anybody else can gain, you know, from the conversations we have, so be it. But first and foremost, I wanted to learn from them. Like what?

Like tell me like what makes you tick and how did you get this and what about this? And, and, and just go in where we go with the conversation. And now I’ve done a couple hundred of them. And, uh, some of them like three, four hours long. Like that’s a long form, you know, uh, conversation. And there’s some amazing pearls that have been uncovered with these conversations that I’ve had.

And I go and listen to some of the conversations previously. And, um, it’s a bow wow. Bill channel on YouTube, you guys, and they’re all available. Some of ’em are available in the video section, but most of ’em are available in the live, so you have to click the live. And I think people are starting to figure that out ’cause I’m getting more and more views there.

Um, and, and then once you start to watch ’em, then they show up in your algorithm. People tell me, um, and then I need to do it on Spotify and other, other platforms as well. But, um, yeah, and I need to have you on too, Matt, so you need to come on my channel. 

I would be, I’d be honored. And definitely, uh, anyone listening, we will have all the links.

So Bill, you know, afterwards, send over all links to everything and we’ll have it put in the, the video description here so people can find it. 

Yep. You got it. And, and the one thing about this is like, I don’t do this for the numbers. I don’t do this for clout, I do this for myself like that. It is selfish.

But you guys, there’s, I mean, people have told me, uh, as I go out to, you know, um, classes or, or events or whatever, that they have learned a lot. And you know what, it’s the biggest honor. Because this stuff is out there, it’s evergreen, it’s never going anywhere. I make it free of charge. Now I do have a Patreon page where I have done live streams, uh, with Omar Van Mueller and a few other people that are, are valuable as well for like five bucks, you can access those.

Um, but I wanted to make the majority of ’em free of charge because like I said earlier, at the end of the day, if this can benefit a dog in the world, nothing would make me happier. Dude, 

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And I think that is one of the few redeeming qualities of social media in general is that you it for the right person, you can truly help them and reach them in a way you never could have without it.

Right? Yeah. Like they, they wouldn’t have access to that content. So, um, without a doubt there, there’s a little bit of an advantage there for sure. 

Yeah. What, for people to 

be able to learn. 

What do you don’t like about, we could talk maybe later, but what do, what in your opinion is, is, I mean, one of the biggest problems with social media?

Yeah. I’ll give you more, more detail offline in my, because my thoughts are fairly extreme, but overall, I feel like it brings out the worst in human nature rather than the best. And humans are made to be around each other, to be kind to each other, to love each other. And I see, I mean, I know there’s some of that on social media so people could point to the, the times that that does happen, but there’s so much of the opposite that doesn’t, at least in my experience, tend to happen much in real life.

And it happens there and it just worries me for these generations that are growing up with social media and it’s, you know, during their formative years, you know, you and I are lucky enough to be old enough. Social media came around when we were already adults. 

Thank God, dude. Yeah. Like I think back, like, I’m so happy I didn’t have Facebook when I was like 17 to like 25.

Dude. Hundred percent. I was a maniac. 

Yeah, me, me too. And I always say, luckily I met my, my wife, we were 18 when we met, and by the time social media became a thing, we were together. And I wasn’t like looking for girls or whatever. I can’t imagine, you know, when social media, like if, if it had come out when I was 17, how crazy it would’ve been by the time it came out.

I just, I didn’t need it for anything. It wasn’t like a big deal. It wasn’t trying to impress anybody. And I think about how hard that would be to be a 16-year-old kid trying to find a significant other or friends or whatever and trying to use social media for it. 

Yeah. Point taken, man. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Absolutely. I go on X or whatever, and I just see it’s like a war zone dude, of people just like, just screaming at each other and, and with the political climate that we have. And that’s another aspect is like when we meet together, man, like you don’t see that stuff. And, and not only that, but when you venture out in the world, you see a different picture of what’s being portrayed.

Right. And I’ve had people that I’ve talked to from other countries that, that are, that are visiting America. In fact, I had a conversation just a couple weeks ago with a lady down in Florida and I was like, oh wow, where are you from? And, um, she was from South America, I think, Argentina. And I was like, what did you, what do you think about this your first time in America?

She’s like, oh, yeah. I was like, what do you think about America? She’s like, I can’t believe it. And I was like, is that good or bad? She’s like, it’s amazing. Like, I thought that I was gonna come here. And it would be a lot, a lot different than what the media portrays. Not just social media, but media. Media, mainstream media.

Um, and when you start to have the experience through for yourself, right? Knowledge through direct experience is the, the best way to learn, in my opinion. And I think that we’re, we’re, we’re a degree of separation when we try to gain knowledge. I mean, yeah, there’s, there’s some good aspects of it, but there’s nothing like going and, um, experiencing for yourself, like taking a deep breath of air in that, in that space, reaching out and touching somebody’s hand or, or giving ’em a hug or looking ’em in the eye and, you know, having dinner and, and then having a beer or having a cigar.

That was with Ivan at, at IACP man. We had, we went and had a cigar and, uh, spent like four or five hours just talking, me and Ivan and, and Evan Doggett. And, um, just built a beautiful thing, man. Like, it’s, it’s really cool what you can do when you just put a put away, uh, the misconceptions that you might have and actually experience it.

Uh, in the moment and, and in, in our present and vulnerable and willing to change yourself. 

Mm-hmm. All things that are much easier to do in person. Of course. Yeah. Being around that person 

and sometimes hard too to do. So. 

Yeah. I’m curious. So you do everything live and, you know, we don’t edit this podcast much at all.

We don’t really cut anything, we just add ads in, so it’s pretty, pretty simple. But I think the, the thought of going live to a lot of people has to be scary. That if you said something that you thought was dumb or whatever, that it’s out there for the world. Is that an issue at all? Do you have any guests that don’t really wanna do it live or have you had any issues, you know, producing the show live?

Nope. 

I mean, there’s some, I mean, there’s a couple people that are like, Hey man, I don’t wanna mention. I’m like, well too late. Like, I’ll see if I can cut it out. But, but I think that it’s important to hear people live. I think that it’s important, just like I was saying, like, well, you know, when somebody’s passionate about something, when they can just sit here for hours and hours and just talk about the subject and, and think and ponder and, you know, that, that was one of the aspects of, there was a app called Clubhouse and this was that, that was audio only.

And we’re, we got a bunch of dog trainers in there and then we found out, man, like the ones that are, the social media, the experts on social media. A lot of times they were, they, they dispute nonsense. You could tell that their, that their stuff was, you know, that they didn’t know what they were talking about.

And so, I like the aspect of going live. I like the fact of like, let’s show up together. Let’s talk through this stuff and let’s let the world see who you are. And people ask me, can I swear? I was like, do you swear in real life? They’re like, heck yeah, I do. I’m like, then swear dude, I, the most important thing to me.

And, and I’ve had a guests on that I’ve disagree with and, but I still listen to ’em and I’m like, okay, that’s interesting. You know, but it’s, I, I think that it’s hogwash, but the most interesting thing, or the most important thing to me with these live streams is that you bring your authentic self. I wanna see who you are.

And I, and I love people, dude. I love to talk to people. I love to get to know people genuinely. And, um, a thing that’s interesting that has happened is I’ve, I’ve gone on some of these TV shows and it’s, and it’s perplexed the heck outta me, Matt, because I’ve seen, I’ve, I was sitting there talking to somebody in a green room, and then we would go out there on the camera and they are a completely different person.

It’s crazy, isn’t it? 

And I’m just looking at him like, whoa, this is nuts, man. Like, I don’t like that. I don’t like. To be to. And so I, that’s why I like it live. And that’s why, I mean, honestly, I don’t, I mean, I’m not big into editing or anything anyway. I just wanna push a button and be done. Like, I’m like, okay, done.

Yeah. Like, and be, and um, that’s why I like training dogs out here on my property too, is like, okay, cool, we’re done. I’m inside later. Like, I’m off. But, um, you know, there, there is a degree of authenticity that we see, um, when we’re live than if it’s curated. And, and the other thing too, man, is that I have people that have reached out to me is like, you need to, to have me on the show.

And I’m just like, I don’t know, man. Like, like sometimes it’s, I, I, I wanna find out these people. And so, and dude, it doesn’t matter if you’ve been training dogs one week or or 50 years. I mean, it doesn’t matter to me like you’re, what you’re doing. If I see something that I like that I wanna find out a little bit more about what you’re doing or then, um, then I’ll reach out to you, man.

And I’m pretty persistent too, but I, but I try to be in a very respectful way of, but there’s some people that are saying, no, I’m not interested in that, or I, and I respect that. Um, but there’s, there’s people that, uh, that have come on that I’ve just been blown away by. And, um. And I love it. I need to do some more of ’em.

I’ve been back in town and I’m gonna start lining ’em up. I’m gonna do one with Melanie Udi. How do you, UDI how do you say her last name? Do you know? Uda? Okay, thank you. Matt uda. So I’m working with her. We’re gonna do one, one. I just did one with Pat Nolan. You guys gotta watch that one. Pat Nolan’s amazing.

I just did one with Michael Ellis. One of my favorite ones I’ve ever done is with Michael Ellis. Um, and I’m, I’m working, I got, I got people on my, I got d Denise Zi on my, on my, um, on my radar. I got Robert Cabral. Dude, it’s so cool. I reached out to Robert Cabral. I’m just like, Hey buddy, I want you on my light.

And he is just like, eh, you know, not, and then I meet him at IACP. I’m like, ha, dude, you need to come on my, he is like, reach out to me again. I was like, I’ll, so he is on my radar too. And, and this is another aspect of like, getting people to know me is like, meet me in person and then, or or I meet somebody else in person, be like, dude, I need to, we need to talk about this on live.

Like the overall dog, uh, industry can benefit from, from hearing from you and knowing who you are. 

Yeah. And ha I mean, having the connections makes such a difference. And like you said, with Robert being at conference and when you meet someone in person, you’re no longer just a name. Right? Yep. They, they know you have a conversation.

They’re like, this guy seems pretty cool. A lot easier to say yes to that than just a, a random person. 

Yeah. And know that they’re just like, there’s people curating content, uh, for the dog. There’s, there’s shysters on the podcast or the livestream side that are out to make you look like a, a fool or, oh dear, look at my, I got a little, little thumbs up.

And to know that, that they have your interests at, at at heart. And, um, sure. You know that they’re not gonna steer the conversation wrong or, or make you look like an idiot. 

Have you ever had anything crazy come up during a live stream? 

Oh my goodness. I’m sure I have. Yeah. I mean, there’s some, like, like with, um, I mean, there’s, there’s some trainers, like I, and I’m not, I won’t necessarily mention some, but there’s trainers that I’ve had on where people have sent me, um, some problems that they had with this trainer after I’ve had it.

Or they’ll put comments down below, like, this, this guy ripped off my dog’s ear. Yeah. Shit that I’m, or shoot, sorry. That I’m, um, that I’m just like, what? And there’s been trainers that I’ve had on that I have deleted everything I’ve done with them, or of marketing gurus click, quote unquote, that I found out that I’ve ripped off other people.

And that’s the other aspect of having a good network is that did, you can have people tell you, Hey, look man, this, this person’s a shyster. Mm-hmm. And, and, and I see the best in people and sometimes I get taken advantage of too. So, yeah, there’s been some crazy stuff that come on, but there’s also been some crazy people that I’ve talked to that I’m like, okay, cool.

You’re not, you’re not what I thought you were. And, um, I just don’t wanna be associated with that. And so I’ve deleted ’em and, and usually block ’em and, and just let, let it be, uh, you know, an experience, lesson learned, so to speak. You know? Um, but that’s, that’s it, is like we see the best in people and it’s hard to realize that there are bad people in the world.

And, um, the worst thing that people want is to be found out. And I think that in this industry, there are some bad people, dude, that, that, um, it is a magnet for the asocial type of personality because the dogs, they can gain like what we call narcissistic supply or whatever, by controlling another creature.

And to realize that they exist out there and to be truthful about that. And, uh, not to, not to dwell and focus on it, but just, just to know like, like they’re out there, man. And to keep your eyes open. And once you find one to, to kind of let people know and so that they, they don’t have a bad experience. Um, and, and to, to flush them out to, we don’t need that crap in the industry or, or in our organizations.

And, um. And, and that’s one of the things that when I filled out the, my membership form for the ICPI was happy to see like there is some qualifying questions about, um, people that might fit this type of profile of, of abusing animals or whatever, that they do not, uh, are not allowed into this organization, which I’m very, I applaud.

Yeah. What, what’s interesting about all of that? So I oversee the ethics committee, and so I’m not, and I’m not on the committee, I oversee it. So the ethics committee, a complaint would come in against a, you know, particular trainer in the IACP and it, and it goes to the ethics committee and they review all of it and kind of make a, a determination.

And then that goes to the board from there. And there’s certainly some bad trainers in the world, just like you said. And then there’s also the flip side where you get a complaint, come in and it sounds really bad, and then you reach out to that trainer and you’re like, tell us your side of the story.

Mm-hmm. And it’s the exact opposite. You start looking at facts and you realize it’s a crazy client that is trying to create, you know, issues for them, right? 

Yep. And so 

that is a, a big challenge trying to weed through that stuff to figure out, you know, who’s the problem, you know, and who’s not. Right? And when is the trainer the problem and when, when is the client the problem?

Or a disgruntled ex employee, or a disgruntled ex lover, whatever, right? It’s crazy. 

Yeah, emotional arena, like I said, 10 times the more likely to act. And sometimes that can go either way. And that’s why I find as best to just block, like whenever I have an incident because of people will find out and they’ve come back at me tenfold, dude.

And I’m just like, I don’t want that energetic residue as I was saying. I don’t want to worry about that. And so I’ve learned to just block. But also, I mean, it’s important to realize that we belong to, uh, uh, you know, an industry where we do have police officers, we do have federal agents. We do have, uh, these people that are put in positions of authority where they see some of the bad in the world.

And so I’ve reached out to some of my friends that are cops and, and federal agents and special forces, and, and I have that I can ask ’em about somebody or, or this behavior. And they, and they tell me honestly because just like I see the bad in people. Some of people see the worst in people, and sometimes I want that perspective of like, no, let, like, am I, am I, um, am I wrong here?

And sometimes I am, sometimes I’m not. Um, but that’s, that’s just it. And that’s like even with Jason Ferguson, who’s, uh, who used to be a cop. Like I value people like that because it’s, they see stuff that I couldn’t even imagine, um, or I don’t even think I can handle. Uh, but it’s valuable to, to gain some from their insight and their observations that you don’t align yourself with people that, that could be possibly bad criminals or whatever.

Um, and so yeah, it’s, the network is net worth again, you know, 

people are shaped by their life experience and the stuff they’ve seen and learned. Uh, I can tell you, I was at a store once and I saw these, like, these little like glass decorative things for sale, and I’d seen him at a bunch of stores and I was asking, I was like, who buys this stuff?

Like a little flower and this glass thing? And the clerk looked at me like he’s an idiot. And he’s like. That’s for smoking, like crack or coke or whatever it was. And I was like, wait, that’s what these are for? And he is like, yeah, what did you think they were for? I’m like, I decoration, I guess I just don’t, 

you’re like, I got like 10 of them in my planner box at home, dude.

I go, I don’t, I need to go throw those away. 

And I’m sure a cop would look at that, obviously, and no, instantly, right? Like you see one of those laying around, you’re like, this person’s a crack head or whatever they use it for. 

Yeah. I mean, and, and, but it’s also, you know, it’s, it’s, I think people don’t know what they don’t know, right?

And that’s an example of it. But there’s also, when I was talking about the emotional, uh, aspect of this too, like it’s appealing to a people’s emotion and it’s, it’s kind of like, that’s it. It’s like, oh, this is cool. That’s a, that’s, I like that. Like there’s something about this that when you appeal to that emotion, um, and I see a lot of this with, in the dog industry, with clients that I have, with all these contraptions that they have on their dog.

I’m just like, what is this? What is this? What is, and they got this huge, um, you know, basket full of like these harnesses and this new reinventing the wheel instead of just actually learning and training their dog. And so. I don’t know why, why the crack pipe took me over to this train of thought, but it did.

Here we are. Um, that, I think that, that, I mean, there is, um, an appeal to emotion where people just have a misconception and they, they, I don’t even know what I’m trying to say here, but I, but I’m trying to say something about how they try to reinvent the wheel, I guess, about by buying all these devices and knowing, like, there is a very, there is a very simple approach to, to training dog that doesn’t require all this equipment.

Mm-hmm. 

And that we, I mean, there’s, there’s tools that are valuable, but there’s also, it reminds me of a, of a quote from Bill Keeler where he talks about the mark of a trained dog is off leash reliability. And this was before the eco, actually, this is one of the, I’m sitting right here on my desk. This is one of the very first eco books from like, um, the late seventies, I think.

Like, these things were crazy. Look at that thing, right? And so we even have ecos and stuff, but even with ecos, like I, I mean, they can malfunction, they can come off, they can, like, there’s certain things that can happen. What’s going on here? Oh my thing’s hitting my. I put a, whatever my, my keyboard was like cycling through all this weird stuff on the screen, um, where we put these eColors.

Uh, and, and that’s it. That’s the end all, be all. And this is where I talk about, okay, this is where I’m going. Getting to this is why the Im the important, it’s an important to understand the principle behind the technique because some of these tools, uh, they become a technique or approach with the relationship with the dog instead of getting to the fundamental foundation of why the dog does and to respond accordingly.

And so that those lines of communication are truly open. Does this make any, like, I’m off on a tangent, but it’s, does it make sense to you, Matt, like 

Yeah. 

Yeah. I mean, 

I mean, no question. If you don’t understand why you’re doing something and what actually makes it work as soon anything, as soon as the script deviates by one line, then you’ve got problems, right?

Yeah. It’s like the 

teleprompter shuts down. Yep. Right? And you’re just like, uh, right. And instead of mm-hmm. You know, instead of knowing, you know, knowing thoroughly and very deeply why you do what you do, uh, sometimes you don’t even need a teleprompter, speaking of which, now you have a teleprompter on your thing for, we were talking earlier about this.

Yeah. I just need to 

figure out how to use it. 

And I’ve never used a teleprompter or anything, but maybe I should, man. I’d be like, am I in Bow? Wow, bill? I haven’t, no. You could tell when people are reading. And 

Bill, I’ll tell you. So we’ve got a YouTube channel for my company and the videos, the first ones I did, I made the teleprompter and I’ve left them up there.

Oh, they’re, they’re such shit. They’re like, the information’s good. The content’s good, but they’re not good. And then as I started doing them off the cuff and just saying the stuff I say to clients on a daily basis, it did so much better that the teleprompter’s brutal. 

Yeah. You could tell man. And people, you know.

And I, I mean I, I’ve done it where I’ve read off the screen some questions. Like even with Jason, I had questions that I wanted to ask ’cause I wanted to focus on IACP and why people should join. And I’m watching, I’m just like, oh man, I’m looking at my eyes. And I remember I had Kelly Engle. Do you know who Kelly Engle is?

No. She’s awesome. You gotta have her on one of these. I believe she’s a member of IACP, but, um. She was like, what are you looking at? And I was like, dude, you could tell I’m looking at 

something because, ‘

cause I’m like this on the, the screen or something like that. She’s like, what are you looking at? And I’m like, I’m doing research on what you’re talking about right now.

But, um, yeah, I mean, just be, just be passionate, be knowledgeable and, and remember Einstein. Um, and if, if you don’t know Einstein, because there’s some people that are younger that are just like, E Einstein’s a genius back. He, he equals mc squared theory of relativity. But he said that if you cannot say, uh, explain something simply, you do not know it well enough.

Right. I think that’s where I’m getting at with all these like devices and contraptions and all this stuff. Like, it’s more complexity where this stuff is simple, man. And let me explain why it’s simple. Let me, let me help you with this, with this situation in a manner that we don’t need all this stuff to jumble up the message that you’re sending to your dog.

Um, and, and the interpretation of the behavior they’re exhibiting to you. 

And I think a lot of it comes down to that. Everybody wants a quick fix. Mm-hmm. You know, myself included, like who wouldn’t want a quick fix? That’s obviously better than a slow fix. And you, you try something, it doesn’t work. And then you see an ad for some product that says it works and you’re like.

Dude, I saw an ad the other day, I don’t even know what it’s called, but it was this thing, and this lady’s talking about, I’ve got this magic product. I had to try it and it’s like an ultrasonic thing for dogs, but they were like all these dogs in the dog park. And she’s like, this is the first time I’ve ever pushed the button.

And then like 20 dogs all sit down and look at her wagon or their tails and she’s like, this is amazing. I can’t believe it actually worked. And it felt like an SNL spoof commercial. Like it, it felt like a joke. It was so crazy. But it was a real thing. 

Well, and that’s unethical in my opinion, right? Sure.

’cause you’re showing something that’s untrue. You’re appealing to people’s emotion. And I just don’t want that nonsense because dude, this is, this is a lot of times what have gotten people off into the ditch where they’ve actually reaching in their pocket and spending a lot of money to hire me. And they’ve already spent a ton of money hiring other people that, that money could have been allocated in, in meaningful ways to enhance their life.

And, and it’s, you know, and, and, and I get that we do have, I mean, we have these devices, right? That, that, that allow us instant gratification and it’s changed our mind on how we access information. But I mean, there is a, um, there is an aspect of this, and that’s why the, the topic of my presentation was slow is fast, less is more, right?

It’s just about being present. And focusing on the chunking down the information, getting to that next step, looking back, celebrating our victories. Now let’s move on to the next step. Celebrating our victories. Now you’re fine at this step. Okay, love you. Take care. Call me if you need anything else. And a lot of times that’s, that’s all my clients want is they’re like, we’re, oh, we’re at the fourth step and that’s all I want.

We’ve got everything we need with our dog. And I’m like, dude, there’s like 150 steps, just so you know. Like there’s like, we’re, we’re at the very, but if that’s all you want, then, then we’re good. Um, it’s your dog, it’s your life. Um, but to realize that, uh, I really want to help people, and that comes through truth.

And sometimes the truth is brutal, man, but we owe it to them. Otherwise it’s unethical. Like, just like you said that dude, if you go to a park with one of those, those things and you hit it, you’re gonna have two dogs run away. You’re gonna have one dog turning and barking at your ass, and then you’re gonna have one dog going like, what the, what was that?

And then another dog maybe lay down like, you know what’s gonna happen? You don’t 

think all 10 of them will sit next to each other in a line wagon their tails. 

That’d be 

so rad 

if that happened. If you went there and that happened, I’d be like, what is that? Gimme that I want that, what is, what’s going on here, man?

But I just know that, that, I mean, that’d be rad. Just be like a magic wand like Harry Potter, you know? Just be like, sit, sit toum

here, I gotta do it. 

So you’ve already, you already said your goals for the extreme future, your end of life goals. You said are you wanna look back and have prevented euthanasia and kid kids getting bit by dogs? I love those goals. What’s in the near future? What, what are your goals with, I mean, you have a Patreon, you mentioned that briefly.

Obviously you’re doing the live streams. What are you working on now? What are your goals? 

Well, I’m redoing my floors. Okay. So that’s the immediate goal. Yeah. Let’s like get my house put packed together. Um, I mean, I want to help with the shaper here, what we mentioned earlier. So we’re working on this, uh, traveling with my wife, um, learning and creating more content, working on my property here, paying off my property.

I’m almost paid off on this property, which is a huge, huge goal. Congrats. You know, I’m, I can’t wait. And I mean, IACP go into that. I’m working, I was gonna do like an online class thing, which I might still. But now that’s kind of on the back burner as well. Taking care of my clients here, my immediate clients.

And, and what’s crazy, Matt, is that I’ve had clients, I started in 2007, uh, just on this business here. I have clients that I’ve had since day one on 2007 still, and we’re like on their third generation of dollars. Right. I was gonna say, isn’t 

it weird when they call with a new dog and it’s like bittersweet, it’s fun, but also sad that the last two dogs have passed.

Well, dude, I find them, I find them their new dog, so it’s like, and I help them through the passing. Like that’s another as like, I’m in it for everything, man. Like, everything I even call to get, like I have, I have a network of people that are doctors that will go to their house for euthanasia. Right. And compassion pause.

And, and I, I’ve done 

that with a dog and it’s, if you can afford it and someone’s near you, it’s the only way to go. 

It’s the only way to go. And not only that, but it makes your living room hollowed ground now or wherever this dog passed away. And it’s also, this is something that I don’t shy away from, man.

Like, I cry with my clients, I just can’t help it. Mm-hmm. Right. And because it sucks. And that’s what I tell ’em. It’s like, this sucks. There’s nothing else I can tell you about this except for it sucks. 

Mm-hmm. But, 

and then I tell them, dude, this is, I have two conversations with my dog. Well actually I have, I have a bunch of conversations when they’re starting to near the end of life.

First thing I do is I ask them. When you’re ready. I promise you, I will not falter. Let me know when you’re ready, when you’ve had too much of this life. It is such a gift, a blessing. Dude, I, I hope I don’t start crying because I feel like bubble it up. Yeah. But it’s such a gift, a blessing that I can give you after everything you’ve given to me in my life that I can end your suffering.

So if this suffering becomes too much for you, sweetie, just let me know and, uh, I will make the call. The other, the other, uh, talk I have with him, and this one’s a little bit hippie dippy. My, my client was like, I was telling my his wife about this. He comes from downstairs. He is like, oh my gosh, man. But I, I asked the dog, I, I, I’m earnestly asking them.

I was like, dude, I cannot express to you how grateful I am for this experience in, in my life, that you’ve honored and blessed my life by sharing your life with me. And when I am done with this life and I follow you into the after world, I, I full on consent. And I ask, and I just want to put it out there that if you consent with me, I would like for our souls or energetic bodies or whatever you call it, to merge for eternity.

I want to be a part of, of my experience forever. Um, and then I. I mean, it’s just so deep. Like I haven’t done it for my, Wyatt was 18 when he passed a couple years ago, and all my dogs, my oldest one’s like 10 right now. But I think that it’s just such a profound, a profound thing that these dogs, they, they teach us so much.

And, um, I’m just so grateful that I get to have the experience with the dogs that I have. And it’s an kind of an esoteric experience because there’s, they’re there for my whole life every time I wake up. I mean, there’s this, this companion aspect is so important, um, that I’m so grateful. But I also wish that I had them for longer, especially as they start to near the end of their life.

And it just sucks, dude, you know, because you know that it’s gonna happen. But knowing that it’s gonna happen, they’re still there. Enjoy them while they’re alive. There’s plenty of time to grieve your dog after they’ve gone. Don’t grieve them while they’re sitting right there on your living room, dude.

Like, I know. That’s what I have to tell my clients. Like, dude, the dog’s right. Go pet him. Go pet the dog 

right now. Mm-hmm. 

You know? Um, but that’s, that’s it. Is, is, uh, I don’t know. How the heck did we get on this? 

It just kinda, we just did. 

We just did. Yeah. Well, but then I have, um, a network of people that I call like, oh yeah, every aspect of that dog’s life from diet.

I mean, and that’s what’s good about this network is your net worth. You guys. It’s like your clients can use you puppy diet, um, exercise, losing weight. Like there’s a book called Chow Hounds that I recommend. Um, different health problems, genetic problems, um, aging, uh, end of life. And then also helping ’em out when they travel to provide them peace of mind that their dog is safe so they can enjoy their time away.

And that’s important as well for us to get, um, have that peace of mind that our dog is, is, is just fine. And, and that that they’re with a trusted person that we can enjoy our vacation. Sorry, I’m rambling. Absolutely. 

And we’ve all seen people, right, that don’t go on trips ever because of their dog. And 

I got seven dogs, dude.

Like that’s, I do go on trips, but luckily I have, my wife and I have a couple helpers. But that’s the other aspect. You guys like, we, I know you’re passionate about this, but how many dogs do you have, Matt? 

Just two. That’s 

the way to go. Two’s the magic number, dude. 

It’s perfect. They can play with each other.

Yes, they can, you know, have a dog buddy, but we’re able to travel with them relatively easily. They can be in the back of the vehicle. It, it helps a lot, you know, can, compared to having a lot more. 

Yeah. Be, if you get, guys can borrow from my scar here. Like, I started breeding dogs during the pandemic ’cause everything else went, went belly up.

Um, and then I did the skipper kids, but then I fell in love with a couple puppies and then a couple more. And then, um, you, like I was saying, you pay to go to work when you have seven dogs. Like I have, I mean, my wife luckily has two dogs with her in Montana. And so I’m here alone with five dogs and then I have to pick up three today.

It just, it just, it compounds the dogs. So even though I have two of my client dogs, I really have nine dogs. Right. And so, um, learn from my lesson, you guys, two, three dogs max. Um, and, uh, so you can travel. It is important to get that, uh, experience and, and to recharge. And it’s important to work on your business, not just in your business too.

Right. And so know that, uh, if you’re working always in your business and just spinning your wheels, this, this industry is prone to a great degree of burnout. And that’s the fastest way, in my opinion, to burn yourself out is just to continue to work on your bus or in your business without no way out.

When you have a a time of like, dude, in two weeks I’m, I’m going to Costa Rica, or I’m going to Florida, or whatever, then you have that window of, of release that you can actually go and, and recharge and work on the business if that’s what you wanna do. 

And time to recharge is key for sure. 

Amen. Amen. Well, 

I think we covered a lot of good stuff today.

I think this episode’s gonna be helpful to people and think, uh, I don’t think so. I, I think people will really enjoy getting to hear you talk and we, we covered, we covered the gambit. We went through maybe a little bit of everything. 

Yes, we did. And then I can’t wait to go to the gambit with you too, just to flip this.

Yeah. 

Would would love to. Anytime. 

Yeah. So I’ll reach out to you and then, um, and yeah, and I’ll send you the link. Anything else that do you think that we should comment on? 

Now I would encourage everyone to check out, you know, go to the links, watch some of Bill’s conversations. Uh, you know, I’ve checked some of ’em out.

They’re great. It’s, uh, if you’ve got the time to listen and, you know, put ’em on while you’re driving. I mean, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of good. I caught the Michael Ellis one was great to listen to most of the one on Jason, but I was running between appointments. It’s tough to get to get all of it that day, but a lot of really good content.

I would encourage people to go there and listen to that stuff. 

Yeah. Thank you buddy. And then also I want us, I’m going to go on Spotify and then Ja or, um, who’s, um, Nathan s Schumers showing me some stuff on how to make this like on a podcasting platform so people can just listen to them. Um, and that’s it.

No, no commercials, no nothing. Just, just talking and, and some of my beginning stuff too. The one thing that gets me is, uh, um, or, um, um, um, um, right is I was saying that a lot. Uh, uh, I was just say of just being present and being able to change and to focus on, uh, watching your stuff. And same thing you’re gonna pick up on problems with when you’re working with dogs.

Uh, if you, uh, now I’m focused on my, uh, uh, if you, uh, if you can view back from perspective, but more importantly, if you get into. A network of people that can help you with the nuances that can make you a better trainer. 

Mm-hmm. Join if you’re a listener and you’re not a member of the IACP join. And what was your number?

1 7 9 9 9. I was just gonna interject that anyway, but yeah, use member number 1 7 9 9 9 for your reference code, and you will receive a big hug from me at the, unless you’re not a hugger, then Matt will kiss you. 

Yeah, you get a hug or a kiss, whatever you want. It has to be physical affection. There’s no other or both 

If you’re a, if you’re a hugger and a kisser, but that’s where we’re gonna draw the line right there.

Okay. You guys, we can’t, um, but yeah, join, join IACP. Very valuable. And if you watch this or if you watch any of my contact, please let me know. Um, and if you see somebody that you would like, or you know, somebody that you would like me to interview, you know, send them my way or, or let me see some of their stuff or send me a link.

Best way to get ahold of me is on Facebook, or I mean my website. Bow wow bill.com. And that’s, that’s it. You guys. Happy training and thank you, Matt. 

Well, thanks Bill. Thanks for listening everybody.