Rose, welcome to the show. Thank you for coming on. 

Thanks, Matt. I appreciate it. 

Yeah. Glad to be here. There’s been a lot of people asking for you, multiple board members, lots of members of the IACP. A lot of people are into your stuff, so, uh, we’re really excited to get you on here and dig in. 

Yeah. No, I’m excited too here.

Let’s just dive right into it. You want me to kind of break down what I do? 

Yeah, but first I’m just looking at your mic, and it makes mine look like crap. That’s pretty cool looking. The 

colors and- No, it’s a little psychedelic. It’s got a bunch- I- … of different colors. I didn’t really know when I bought it off Amazon.

I was just going for the cheapest option. 

Yeah, mine always stays the same color. Nothing happens. 

No, sorry, hopefully this doesn’t trip you up the entire podcast. 

No, I lo- between that and the hat, I’m just distracted- Yeah … by all the cool stuff. 

You’re distracted. Hey, that, that’s awesome. I love that. 

So yeah, I think it’d be great.

Let’s just start with a, you know, Waldrup, uh, Somatic Method, right? What is that? What do you do? Tell everyone who you are- Yeah … what you’re all about, and then we’ll get into the details. 

Yeah, definitely. So I am, I’m Rose Waldrup, and I am the founder of the Waldrup Somatic Method, which is essentially this nervous system framework that we created that helps dogs regulate and recover from stress.

And so we really started working on this language and this framework about a little over a year ago when we discovered that canines respond in very similar ways that humans respond to different somatic techniques. And the word somatic is very, it’s on the forefront of a lot of people, um, their social media feeds and whatnot.

It’s a very up-and-coming term that’s getting put out there into the health and wellness world. And so as being a psychosomatic practitioner for humans, I looked over at my dogs one day and I realized there’s not a language for them yet with this. And if it’s so successful for humans, helping them regulate and recover from stress, then why isn’t there a language for that for canines?

So we dove into that. We started collaborating with different vets and trainers, and we’ve essentially come up with this language that helps us look at our dogs, understand where their nervous system state is at, and how that affects the behavior that we see on the outside, and then essentially putting into place these tools, whether it’s breathwork, presence, or hands-on placement on a dog that can help them recover and become more resilient.

My guess is the people listening right now probably fall into two camps. One camp that are like, “Yes, finally you’re talking- Yeah … about the nervous system. It’s about time.” Mm-hmm. And the other camp may be like, “What does this even mean? Why are we talking about this?” Yeah. “How would- Yeah … how does this stuff actually work?”

Yeah. So let’s address that. Maybe we’ll start by addressing- Yeah … that camp. If you’re- Yeah … trying to explain this to, whether- Mm-hmm … it’s a skeptic or someone that has never heard most of these words- Yeah … how, how do you dive in? Especially, and, uh, pretty much all of our audience are trainers. So how do you dive into- Yeah

a train- with a trainer, and you’re explaining, “Here’s what I do- Yeah … and here’s why it matters.” 

No, that’s a great question because, like you said, I think there are two very specific camps, and when you bring up the word somatics, oftentimes we get people that kind of go on the, the woo woo side of it. And we like to really position ourselves within science and what science says about it.

And so how I would explain it to someone, and even our logo if you look at it, it’s a tree, and you see roots underneath it. What we tell people is that the nervous system is always running underneath every behavior. You can’t see it, but that’s what’s responsible for the tree that’s above the surface, and the leaves, like the behavior that you see.

But underneath, you know, a dog barking or a dog lunging, you know, whatever behavior you wanna call it, there is a nervous system state attached to it. Whether the dog might be in a sympathetic activated state, or maybe they’re in a shut down dorsal vagal state, or maybe they’re in a calm ventral vagal state.

So essentially What we’re doing is we’re teaching people to look at a dog, look at their body language, and then understand that beneath the surface, there’s actual neurobiology that that dog, just like a human, we go in and out of three nervous system states throughout the day. We’re always shifting in and out.

And so dogs are doing the exact same thing because they have an incredibly similar nervous system layout. And when we can understand that, that’s when behavior starts making a lot more sense, and we can get this deeper look into what is our dog actually trying to communicate. Because at the end of the day, our bodies and our dog’s body, we’re constantly asking this one question, and this is what helps solve so many problems.

It’s this one question: Am I safe? Because the nervous system is always predicting what’s next. And so your dog can communicate through their body language if they feel safe or not, and that impacts a lot of things. That impacts learning, how easy they’re gonna be able to be trained, all these different things.

And so we try to teach people essentially, “Hey, here’s the data. This is what we see, and this is impacting your dog’s behavior, and this is how it ties back to the central nervous system.” And, and one way we do that is we even have collars that we put on our dogs. They’re non-invasive. They don’t harm the dog at all.

But what they do is they pull off like stress biometrics, so like their heart rate, um, their pulse, all these different, um, even HRV, these measurements that can help us tell is the dog stressed or not. Because those are things that are real, and if we can show people the actual scientific data, that helps people become a lot more, um, open to understanding that, hey, this, the nervous system, just like Wi-Fi, we don’t see it, but it controls our phones and how we’re connected to the internet.

Just like the nervous system, it’s responsible. It’s that background hum that we often don’t see, but it contributes to the behavior that we see presented. I don’t know if that kinda helps like, you know, address that. 

Yeah. So you’ve mentioned, you mentioned feeling safe and- Yeah … predicting the next thing that’s gonna happen.

So that makes a lot of sense. I’m sure everyone can… I mean, we’re almost to July 4th, so fireworks- Yeah … obviously probably come to mind- Yeah … for a lot of people. 

Oh gosh, yeah. 

But what about the average, uh, as a trainer, a lot of trainers see d- uh, leash reactivity, for example, all the time. How does this tie into that?

‘Cause I think for a lot of people, their first thought as a lot of trainers is not this dog doesn’t feel safe. Yeah. It’s this dog feels overstimulated right now. Yeah. Can you speak to that a little bit? 

Definitely, and that’s a great point too because, you know, leash reactivity often, once again, if you look at a dog that’s reactive on a leash, you tie it back to a nervous system state.

Say they’re, like, lunging or, you know, like maybe they’re just real tense. You can see it in their muscle tone and their breathing’s fast. That’s gonna be a… That’s a real quick point back to the nervous system being in a sympathetic state. And so when a dog’s in a sympathetic state, like I tell people, a- and this might be a horrible metaphor, but it’s like handing someone a math test when their house is on fire.

You’re not gonna be able to answer a lot of those questions to the best of your ability ’cause you’re gonna be focused on all the other stuff that’s happening around you. And so oftentimes, like you said, when a dog’s overstimulated, and even us as humans, when we’re in that state and all of a sudden we’re being asked to do commands or accomplish something, it becomes a lot harder for us to actually focus in on that because there’s just so much that’s physically happening in the body.

And the brain, like the canine brain, what essentially happens is the part of their brain, the neocortex, that’s responsible for learning, when it goes into an overstimulated sympathetic state, the learning part actually goes offline. So that’s why it can become so hard in a training session, and I’m sure you’ve seen this, where it almost feels like you’re at a point of no return sometimes with a dog because they’re just so overstimulated.

And it goes back to understanding there’s actual neurobiology at play here, that that part of their brain is literally saying, “Hey, I’m just gonna go offline right now.” And being able to actually put things in place to help that part come back online is really key 

So let’s start by could you define sympathetic state?

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I know I’m throwing out that word there, and I’m sure… So there are, there’s three nervous system states out there according to the polyvagal theory by Dr. Stephen Porges, and these are the three nervous system states that humans go in and out of during the day, along with dogs. And so it’s kind of like a ladder.

I tell people at the top is we have the ventral vagal state, which is where we’re in the most calm, connected state. That’s where your dog is most calm and connected. I like to tell people it’s like a green zone. And then underneath that is where we have a sympathetic state, which is, I tell people, activation or mobilization.

It’s when your body’s getting ready to mobilize for a potential threat. And there can be healthy activation, too, like when a dog’s playing or like when we’re out exercising, our body is activating, and there can be healthy forms of activation, and then there can be stressful forms of activation as well.

So sympathetic is activated, and then underneath that we have a dorsal vagal state, and this is when a dog or a human is often shut down or withdrawn, kind of like collapsed essentially. So there’s this ladder. At the top we have when we’re in the green zone, we’re connected, we’re doing good, and then underneath that we have mobilization, activation, like this yellow zone.

And then underneath that, I tell people, like the blue zone. It’s when we’re shut down, we’re withdrawn, and we’re collapsed. And it can often be mistaken for calm in dogs and for humans. You know, at some point I tell people like, “Man, if you’re in a crowded room and all of a sudden it just gets to be so overwhelming, sometimes you go sit in the corner and you just shut down.”

And you can look like you’re calm, but inside you’re actually like, “This is too much.” And dogs can do the same thing. So yeah, there’s ventral vagal, sympathetic, and then dorsal vagal. So hopefully that kind of helps break it down. Yeah. There’s a lot of terms there. 

I think that’s great. So a lot of trainers use the word threshold, and I’m sure you’ve come across that and hear trainers using it.

And I think most use the word to describe when a dog crosses their threshold is when they lose control, and you’re- Yeah … a lot of trainers are trying to stay just barely under threshold as they’re working with the dog. 

Yeah. 

When you hear that, how, how does that tie into- 

Mm … 

if they’re still under threshold, are they already in a sympathetic state if they’re close to that?

Or- Yeah … you know, ’cause I d- I would define crossing their threshold as when they lose control. Yeah. But they could still be in control and still be fairly worked up. So I’m curious how you see that phrase. Yeah. 

Yeah. You know, and that’s, that’s also another… That’s something that’s really important too because that’s where really, like honing in on the dog in front of you and their body language is gonna be so important.

Because in the world of neurobiology, in the somatic world, we have this thing called the window of tolerance, which is c- essentially, like talking about threshold here. Humans and dogs, we also have like this window of tolerance, which is essentially basically our capacity for stress before, like we said, we start to tip into an activated state.

And I think that every dog, dependent upon genetics, background, um, breed, I mean, the current environment they’re in, all that goes into play of what is their threshold gonna be. ‘Cause I’m sure, like you could have a dog outside in a calm environment with no people there, and their threshold’s gonna be different versus you take them into a crowded mall for a training session.

It’s gonna look like, okay, that window of tolerance goes from here to here based upon those factors. And so I wouldn’t say like, you know, looking at one dog I could be like, “Hey, this is their window of tolerance.” It’s gonna be dependent upon those factors. And essentially, at the end of the day, our goal is to be able to help expand that window of tolerance little by little.

I like that phrase, the, the window of tolerance. 

Yeah. 

I guess a, a specific question for you, and if this is too hard to answer, just, you know, let me know. Uh, so if you’re working with a dog, so I’ve got a dog on leash, and it’s- Yep … it’s a leash reactive dog, and it- Mm-hmm … sees another dog, and it’s, you know, breathing heavy, you know, tail goes up, all the signs of like, hey, this dog is- Mm-hmm

starting to fixate, right? And if I don’t handle him- Yep … well, he’s gonna blow up. He clearly is not over threshold yet, but would, in your description, is he already in what you would call a sympathetic state because he’s breathing heavy? He’s, he might not be- Yeah … acting out yet, but physically- Yeah … you know, he’s, he’s building.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, the moment that you see, like I said, we watch in the somatic world with canines, and what we’ve noticed over time is, you know, there’s so many different body parts on a dog that communicate. You know, you got the eyes, the ears, the hackles, the tail, the mouth. All these things, and the moment that, you know, you see a dog like that, like if their mouth closes and you see their eyes start to go and they’re not blinking and, you know, you see them fixed in and their jaw tightens, immediately we know that dog is mobilizing.

They’re activating. Even though we haven’t seen the brunt of the behavior yet, you… They’re like warning signs. You know, like when you get, like, a tornado watch, it’s like, “Hey, the conditions are favorable.” It’s like that, and it’s knowing that essentially now, even though we haven’t seen the dog lunge or react yet, it’s imminent, and it will most likely occur unless there’s intervention taken in that moment.

And so, yes, I would definitely say that if you can see the body starting to brace, it’s k- you know, like I said, it builds. Like, activation can build, and so I would definitely say that dog is in a sympathetic state at that moment. 

Okay, which then brings up the question of now what? Yeah. We see he’s in a sympathetic state, not ideal.

Walk me through kinda your method or the w- the way you see that scenario playing out and what you think the person should do. 

Definitely. So there’s a couple ways you can go at this, and at… The first one I’m gonna speak to is this, and this is kinda where we tell people, before you actually go out on a training session, do somatics beforehand because it can actually help lessen those occurrences.

We tell people think of it kinda like pre-workout. You know, before you go to the gym and get a good workout in, a lot of people do pre-workout, and it kinda helps their workout be better. It enhances their session. So I tell people, “You know what? You can set the tone for your training session for your dog if you do some of these techniques beforehand.”

You know, maybe you put your hand on your dog’s chest for a minute and you do some box breathing before you go out, or you do some chest circles, or you do some ear slides, and you just really slow the pace down. That can set the tone for when that dog encounters another dog, they might not be as reactive since they have a solid foundation they’re starting on.

So we tell people with somatics in the training world, it can be used beforehand, during, and after. And so during, like in this case right here, what I would say, and this is where training once again, somatics is not the end-all be-all because in this moment there’s gonna be a lot of training that comes in hand in this interaction.

But if I was there as a somatic person, I would say, “Okay, first of all, you know, move the dog out of the environment where the stressor is.” I would try to go to a place, like if you could go sit down, exit from the s- um, that environment with the other dog. Put your hand on the dog’s chest and just breathe and focus on calming yourself too.

Because one of the largest things that we teach people in this is that it’s both ends of the leash. You know, whoever’s on the other end of that leash in that moment with that interaction, if your dog feels you even starting to brace a little bit because you notice they’re getting stressed, they instantly pick up on that.

And they’ve done studies, and, you know, we’ve worked with different vets where we’ve seen how literally it’s almost like a cord, and there’s like, um, essentially energy that travels through that cord. You know, your dog picks up on that. If you’re tensing up, they’re gonna tense up. If your, you know, if your heart rate starts to increase, they can literally feel that.

And so oftentimes in that scenario, I would say, “Hey, focus on regulating yourself too in this moment. Remove the dog from the environment.” Do some of these techniques. But essentially too, in that moment, I do understand where training is gonna be really important because that’s where you can also, you know, it’s important to help in those interactions, you know, work the dog through that.

Because once again, stress is inevitable. That’s, you know, we’re not trying to tell people, “Hey, create a stress-free life for your dog.” It’s about the recovery from that. So after that interaction, making sure the dog can recover, that they can have time to decompress, you know, all those things. So I tell people before, during, and after.

But hopefully that kinda helps like break that down a little bit. I, it’s one of those things when they’re really escalated like that, it’s gonna be hard in that moment to pull them back down immediately. It’s gonna take a little bit of, a little bit of work to do that. 

Yeah. And I think I j- I jumped the gun a little bit there.

I, I pushed you right into during. We didn’t even cover before. So why don’t we, why, why don’t we spend a little bit of time there? 

Yeah. No, definitely. Not, not my mic completely, uh, falling off here. So yeah. No, let’s, let’s 

go- And if you need a minute to fix it, take your time. 

Well, actually even beforehand this thing was not staying put, so I have no issue holding it here.

As long as you can hear me. Um- 

It sounds perfect. 

Yeah. So regarding before the session, kinda like I mentioned, as like a pre-workout, you’re setting the tone essentially for that session. Even, uh, for people, I tell people, “Hey, how you set the rhythm for your day impacts how you move through stress.” Like for example, let’s just say like, you know, you get up in the morning and you’re rushing around and you don’t have a ti- you don’t even have a moment to sit down and breathe.

The rest of your day when you encounter stress, you’re literally putting yourself in a place where it’s gonna be harder to recover. And one analogy that I use that really helps tie kinda these dots together, I tell people, “Picture your dog has this backpack at the beginning of the day,” okay? And as the day happens, there’s these rocks that get put in the backpack, like stress, and that backpack gets heavier and heavier.

But if that dog never has a moment to stop and we don’t help them pull the rocks out of the backpack, that’s when we often see behavior that emerges that we’re like, “Hey, that… Oh, that’s not good. We got lunging, we got reactivity,” or, “Oh, they’re shut down.” And we s- don’t even stop to look and see, wait, have they actually, have we helped them manage that load that they’re carrying?

And so that’s one way that I like to explain it to people. And you know, there’s a lot of different techniques that we teach people, whether they’re hands-on or if you’re sitting beside your dog and you’re just practicing some deep breathing. There’s a lot of different things that we can dive into in that area, um, because I’m sure a lot of people are probably wondering like, “Well, like what actually do I do?”

Yeah. And so yeah, beforehand it just really sets the foundation and the tone for that training session. 

Yeah, I think spending a little more time on the beforehand would make sense because the, the analogy you just used about the backpack full of rocks I think will resonate with pretty much every trainer listening.

And we, we’ve all been there where you see, you know, sometimes a dog’s not in the right state of mind to learn. Yeah. And there’s a variety of ways to get them to that right state. Very curious to hear about yours. So I think spending a few minutes there- Mm-hmm … on what those exercises look like and how they’re helpful could be, you know, really good for our listeners.

For sure. So honestly, where I tell people to start is we have a framework that we teach people in our courses, and it’s really foundational and it’s simple. It’s literally three Rs. It’s regulate, read and relate. And essentially what that framework is, that first R, regulate, kinda like I mentioned with you, is we stop and we actually teach the humans on the other side of the leash how to regulate.

Because if we go into a training session and we’re stressed out, hmm, dog’s gonna pick up on that and it will set the tone. And I’ve seen that over and over, and I’m guilty of that because, you know, I’ll notice with my dogs I’m stressed out and I see them starting to kinda get a little activated, and I stop and it’s like oh wow, they’re like holding up a mirror for me right now.

And so teaching people, for example, one of the best ones that I’ll have humans do when they’re sitting beside their dog there is just put a hand over their chest and close their eyes and just sit in silence for like 60 seconds and just, you know, just be there. Try to be present in your environment. And it sounds so simple, and a lot of these will sound so simple that it’s like, wow, that actually works?

But a lot of it is slowing down because at the end of the day, when you slow down that sends a message to the central nervous system of safety. ‘Cause when you’re going fast and you’re rushing, that sends a message of activation. Uh, for example, like if you’re petting a dog really fast, I’m sure you’ve seen people that go and they like start scratching their dog really fast and it gets hyped up and their tail’s wagging.

Okay, now if you started petting the dog really, really slow, you’re gonna probably see the opposite. You’re gonna see him start to calm down because slowness creates an environment for safety. And so that’s where beforehand I will do that. I’ll personally sit beside my dog. I’ll do some somatic exercises myself, whether that’s deep breathing, closing my eyes, or maybe even like some tapping.

There’s a lot of things we break down for people, but for the dog, what I would do, and we have around I think now it’s 15 to 16 different techniques we teach people. I’ll tell you a couple of my favorites here. First one I love to do, it’s chest circles, and this one, as weird as it sounds, it’s gone viral and so many people find a lot of success.

And so what you do is you literally take your hand on your dog’s chest and you just do, like draw some really slow circles. And why that’s so impactful and why people often see like their dog yawn or like lick their lips is because the vagus nerve, if any of you are familiar with that, it’s one of the largest nerves that runs through the human body and the canine body.

It runs right up through our head, down through our gut, and there’s branches of this nerve that stem out into the ear, into the chest cavity, all these different areas. And primarily- If you think about a dog’s chest, there’s not a lot of fat in that area. So in a way it’s almost easier to access and communicate with that nerve.

And so since that’s one of the largest calming nerves, by doing chest circles in that area, we often see more physiological responses within canines. And so that’s one of my favorite go-tos. I’ll sit there, and most of the time people, if you stop, your dog will often paw at you or they’ll be like, they’ll lean into you ’cause they want more.

And so essentially that’s one of my favorite go-tos right there. And then we have ear slides, which also connects, the vagus nerve has branches into your ear. Even for humans, there’s certain pressure points that you can pull down on your ear. If you’re anxious or nervous, like you’ll see people out in public that do this, you can pull down, there’s like a certain spot here, and it can actually help calm your nervous system.

And so with dogs, I tell people you just take your thumb and your index finger and you start right at the base of your dog’s ear, and you simply just draw your fingers out till you reach the end of their ear. And you just repeat that, and you do that over. And with any of these techniques, what I tell people is this, is first of all, you’re following the dog’s body language.

At any point in time, if you’re gonna attempt this and your dog all of a sudden like turns their head away or shows signs of stress, okay, that’s where you back off. You know, ideally you’re doing this on a dog that is sitting by you, that has consented, that wants to actually be touched. You’re, you’re not forcing it.

Um, and so those are probably two of my favorite go-tos. And so we have like that first R, that regulate, and that second R is read, which I kind of discussed, um, essentially knowing what state is your dog in. Are they in an activated state? Are they in a frozen state? And then that third R is relate, where I just talked about those techniques where we go and we actually, based upon knowing what state they’re in, we then utilize those techniques.

And so that framework is really solid, and you can use it with any dog because essentially you start out by regulating yourself, you understand what nervous system state the dog is in, and then you can put your hands on them, or you don’t even have to put your hands on them if it’s a dog that is touch aversive.

And so that’s really essentially, like I said, beforehand going into a training session, I would utilize that framework, and if the dog wants to be touched, I would go right for the chest area. It’s a very neutral area. And then the ears, that might be a little more sensitive for some dogs, but if you’re comfortable with that dog and they’re okay with it, that’s often another area that people see a lot of success with.

So right now we focused mainly on before. You know, I- Yeah … I, I had jumped in at the beginning into the, the during. But if you had to place a percentage of importance on before- Mm-hmm … during, and after- Yeah … are they split 33% or is before way more important than after or vice versa? What are, what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah. That’s a really, really good question. I would say personally, from what I’ve seen, is that I would probably split it, you know … I’d say it’s just as important before as it is after, because recovery is just as important. But I think, honestly, splitting them probably 50/50 there. I would say people primarily use it before and after.

There are moments during that it can be really impactful, but the biggest chunks are gonna be prior and then post, because recovery is a lot … Like, once you move through stress, the recovery is what helps the body move back into that ventral vagal state, that green zone. If you think about it, you know, if you get activated and you stay there and there’s no way for your body to know, “Hey, I’m safe,” it gets stuck, and that’s the problem with a lot of us as humans.

Uh, you know, we see that a lot of us are running around and we’re wired in fight or flight ’cause we don’t know how to recover and go back to that green state, that baseline state. And so that’s where recovery can be really helpful as well. So I’d say, I’d say 50/50. 

Okay. Well then why don’t we jump into recovery?

So what does that look like? Is that the same exercises just being performed after or is it quite a bit different? 

Yeah. So oftentimes it can look very similar. I’d say a lot of it is gonna look pretty similar to beforehand. Of course, we’re going off of the, what we see presented within the dog at that moment.

Just like with any time we enter a somatic session, we’re never forcing it, and we’re reading what state they’re in. And so oftentimes afterwards what I would s- I see a big difference is this. So breaking down kind of this concept here. A lot of our techniques, you know, you’re moving your hand on the dog, but there’s some where you’re not moving your hand at all, and this is really, it’s a perspective shifter.

But like I said, if you’re moving your hand on a dog, that’s more input to their nervous system versus if it’s just steady and held there. And so often what we find is that afterwards, if a dog’s in an activated state from having, you know, a great training session or they were going for some laps and they were getting exercise in, we often do more just basic holds on the body with a hand just still versus moving it because we want to actually communicate to them, hey, we can come back down.

Versus if we’re moving our hands, it can often, hey, keep them in that activated state. If that… Does that kinda make sense there how we can communicate through the pace of our hand essentially what we’re communicating to their nervous system? 

It does, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

And- Yeah, so that’s- … you had mentioned, you had mentioned the speed of petting earlier, and I was just thinking, I-

talk to clients all the time about the speed of walking makes a world of difference. That for a lot of dogs speed is energy, so you start walking quicker, human walks quicker- Yeah … dog walks quicker. Human goes even faster, dog goes even faster, and then they see the squirrel or d- other dog or whatever- Yeah

and they were already in a heightened state, and then they explode. 

Yeah. You see it just starts to build. It just escalates- Mm-hmm … ’cause they’re reading you, and then it just, it’s this cycle. It’s a closed communication loop, and people, I think a lot of people don’t realize, and I’m sure, like you, you see it all day long how that plays out.

Absolutely. 

Mm. 

So who would you say, who is your audience? Are you talking mainly to dog owners? Are you talking to trainers a lot? Vet’s offices? I mean, who do you spend the most time engaging with? Yeah. 

So we have a really wide demographic, honestly. We interact with all sorts of people, anywhere from basic dog owners to rescues and shelters to dog trainers, behaviorists, vets, people in the military world that train canines, police, all these different arenas.

But I would say on a day-to-day basis, we’re dealing with basic dog guardians the most. That is really where we get a lot of messages and people are like, “Hey, my dog is exhibiting X, Y, and Z. What can we do about this?” You know, it’s a, there’s a lot of common problems that we see circulating around, but I would say first and foremost, almost…

I don’t know what the stats are, but there’s a certain percentage here in the US of how many people have a dog, and it’s massive. Almost, almost everyone has a dog, and so that’s our, that’s our big demographic right there. 

And are they coming to you because they have tried training and it’s not working for them, or they- they’ve hit a plateau with their training?

Or are a lot of them coming to you be- you know, because they’re not training their dog and they’re just going this approach instead? 

Yeah. That’s… So we see a variety. I would say we get a lot of people that are actually currently with trainers that are like, “Hey, I wanna supplement some stuff with this.”

Or we see people that are like, “I have emptied out my pockets this much money. My dog is beyond all help. What do I do?” You know, we see those last-ditch attempts there. And then we see people that have never tried training, and that’s where I also tell them, like, “Hey, you can do this all day long, but training is also very critical and important for this.”

We do not… We tell people this goes hand-in-hand. It’s very critical. Like, a properly trained dog is essential because if dogs don’t have structure and clarity, that’s chaos to their nervous system. You know, they need that. They need a leader, and they need to have boundaries, and they need to know those things.

So I’d say we get a good mix of all three, honestly. 

Okay. So someone reaches out to you and maybe signs up for one of your courses. They’re learning everything that’s in the course. If they’re a dog owner that’s not currently involved in training, how much value do they see in the somat- you know, somatic methods?

And I’m not saying that as like that I think- Yeah … they wouldn’t get value. I’m just curious- Yeah … do they see a lot… My question is gonna be, do they see a lot more value when they pair it with training? Yeah. Or do you feel like the value is about the same regardless? 

Yeah, that’s another really good question there.

I would say, so it all depends, and this is kinda interesting what I’ve noticed. There’s, I feel like there’s a couple different camps here. A lot of dog owners, to me, don’t, some of them don’t, actually don’t take their dogs out. Their dogs stay at their house all day long. Maybe they have a fenced-in yard, something like that.

So for them, taking the Dog Somatics 101 course, it’s great. It helps them because they can help their dog feel a little more calm at home. And, you know, in a sense it kinda adds something to their routine that’s helpful and helps the dog move through stress throughout the day. But where I see this being essential, and I tell people, if your dog is going out places, if they, you know, you take them out to public places or they go wherever with you, and you’re just doing Dog Somatics 101 without training, oftentimes people then come back to us and they’re like, “Well, we just had this reactive moment,” or, “This happened.”

And it’s like, hey, this is why training is so crucial. You can have the foundation for somatics, but if you don’t properly lay the house on it, the training, you know, it’s not gonna, it’s not, y- that’s crucial. The dog needs to know how to move through those scenarios. I mean, it’s a great big world out there to them, and it’s scary.

And if we have somatics, that can be very, very helpful, but if the structure for training is not there, that dog, it’s just gonna build and it’s gonna overwhelm their nervous system even more. So I’d say we see people that it works great if their dog’s at home and they don’t have to move through a lot of stress daily.

But when you got… The thing is is it’s inevitable. Stress is out there. So if I have people that take the course and they have not yet, you know, been paired with a trainer, I’m like, “You should probably consider this,” because that’s, it’s crucial. They go hand-in-hand. 

100%. So I, I can’t imagine- There, I mean, there’s so many things you can do out there to help a dog, but if you’re not spending the time showing them what’s correct and what’s incorrect- 

Yeah

then they’re… You mentioned the word clarity earlier, and you sound like a dog trainer when you say that, obviously. I’m 

not, I’m 

not. But trainers love to say that, uh, for good reason. Yeah. You know, dogs need clarity. And if we’re focusing on other things and, you know, not teaching them right from wrong and what we expect in each moment- 

Yeah

we’re gonna have issues, obviously. 

Yeah, exactly. I mean, honestly, when I discovered that by not giving dogs boundary, boundaries and clarity and that structure, it literally, like I mentioned earlier, conveys this sense of chaos to the nervous system because dogs thrive on predictability, and I’ve seen that firsthand.

Dogs love it. My dogs have a routine, and when that routine goes out of whack, you can tell. They start to get antsy, a little more hypervigilant, and that’s where it shows, like training, if you’re consistent with that, dogs, they, they crave that. And so it’s, it is a definite crucial pillar for a dog’s life.

So let’s, let’s kinda get back to our core audience of trainers. Yeah. So they’re, they’re hearing all of this stuff, and I’m thinking of just the questions running through my mind- … as a trainer, right? 

Yeah. 

It’s, it’s easy to think about, okay, I could see playing with some of this stuff with my own dog that, you know, then- Mm-hmm

there’s no timing pressure, there’s no, there, you know, there’s no worry of are they gonna like it or not like it, the relationship is there. It’s pretty easy, I think, for a- Yeah … trainer to, to see, you know, applying this to their own dog. Yeah. But let’s, l- I guess let’s talk about applying this in real life as a trainer.

So very often- Yeah … time is of the essence, right? Where you might be working with a client and with their dog, and you’ve got an hour, and during that hour- Yeah … you need to talk to them, train the dog, give them some homework, right? There’s just a lot, a lot of stuff to do. Uh- Yeah … now we have bef- trying to add stuff before and after, and we might- Yeah

quickly hit a point where, like, there’s just no time for all of this stuff. Is- Yeah … is that a conversation you have with trainers? And if so, how do you navigate that? Are you having- Yeah … the clients do some of the before and after before a session? I’m, I’m just curious how this generally goes. Yeah. 

Yeah.

No, that’s a fantastic question as well because I think that’s very prevalent because time is of the essence. You know, I’ve, I’ve seen it firsthand. You know, trainers, like I said, I have a lot of respect for you guys ’cause there’s a lot that you have to pack in there in that window of time, whether it’s an hour, two hours.

And so I’ve seen it both ways. I’ve seen some trainers that are dedicated, that have taken this, and they devote, like, five to 10 minutes before the training session, before that block ever opens with their client, where they’ll go and they’ll take the dog, and they’ll go do some somatics on it. But I would personally say that if the client’s gonna be involved in the training session, it’s probably gonna be very beneficial that they’re the one doing it.

Because once again, that connection, that relationship, that bond is really crucial, and if they’re the ones that are holding the leash and, you know, the trainer’s guiding them through that, the dog is gonna often, like I said, they’re going to notice and pick up on all the things that we are feeling physically in our body, um, even from a neurobiological standpoint.

And so being able to actually teach and equip clients with, hey, these are some simple tools, man. This takes you five to 10 minutes. You know, we can all find five to 10 minutes in our day, but it’s also the matter of, like you said, for the actual trainer themselves, if they have a crammed schedule, that’s where we have trainers that have often been like, “Hey, look, this is super easy.

Go watch some of her videos. Go try some of this stuff beforehand, and let’s see how it makes a difference here.” Because it really, it sounds like a small window of time, but it really can set the stage for, um, a much more enhanced training session. 

So what would that look like? You mentioned a trainer might say, “Hey, go watch some of Rose’s videos.”

Yeah. Is that… Are they looking on YouTube? Are they buying a course? What does that generally look like? 

Yeah. So we got a variety of different resources out there. We’re currently trying to build up our YouTube channel, but across Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok, we have all these videos that are cross-posted.

We have a lot of, hey, how-tos, some scientific breakdowns, some real-life case examples. All those things are kind of sprinkled in there. I would tell people, go and look. We have a lot of information out there that’s readily available, but if someone really wants to dive in, and they wanna know the three R framework, and they wanna know canine body language, and specifically what are signals of stress, what are signals of calm, and how to really put it all together, that’s where we tell people our Dog Somatics 101 course.

It’s an entry-level course. Anyone can step into it, and they can walk away with a different perspective on their dog beside them, and it’s literally less than what a typical vet bill costs. It retails at, like, 147. And so that’s our beginner course. That usually lays the foundation and really ties together all these different puzzle pieces that we’re talking about.

And would that course be sufficient for a trainer that’s listening that is, you know, digging this conversation. I mean, like, I wanna be able to teach my clients to spend- Yeah … you, you said, we should talk more about timing, but I think you said five- Yeah … or 10 minutes earlier about before, maybe that, five and 10- Yeah

minutes before and after. But if they want their clients to do that, would that initial 101 be enough for the average trainer to listen to that and then be able to coach their clients on this? 

Yes, I believe so. We have a lot of trainers that have went through. Like, in the very beginning when we dropped that course, we had a good chunk of people that were certified trainers, and they went through it, and they said that they were able to take and implement a lot of it.

And say that, you know, a trainer went through it, and they were like, “Man, this was great. I took away a lot of stuff, but I wanna go even deeper,” we do have a certification track that we have around 80 students that are going through right now. So it’s a deep dive in collaboration with some different vets, and it goes deep into just essentially the actual neurobiology of a canine, and then essentially a deep dive into the nervous system.

And really taking it and breaking down a lot of case and real-life examples of how this comes into play, and so in different environments, in different, with different stressors. So that is another option, too. That is, I’d say, a lot… It’s a decent bit more expensive, but it really dives in on a whole other level.

Okay. Well, I think people listening will like the idea that the 101 is not super expensive and is something- Yep … that could give the details, that could coach clients on this. 

Yeah. 

So you had mentioned five to 10 minutes. Is that reasonable? And obviously I know with dogs and with people as well, so much depends on the particular dog or person- Yes

and the particular day. Of course, if they’re insanely stressed, it’s gonna be different. Yeah. But on average- Mm-hmm … five or 10 minutes before and after, is that kind of a, an, an average amount of time you’d be spending on this? 

Yeah. So I tell people, I mean, if you have the time, like say you have a 15, 20-minute window, do the 15, 20-minute window.

But if you’re crunched, five to 10 minutes is just fine. And what you’ll find out, you know, if you dive into our course or if you look at some of our videos, your dog, the dog in front of you, will very much communicate if they’re done or if they want more. Like with my golden retriever, usually about the 15-minute mark, she’ll stand up and she’ll go walk away, and that’s clear communication, “Okay, I’m good.

I’m done.” But there’ll be some days where, you know, we’re 15 minutes into doing some techniques, and I take my hands off of her, and she puts her paw back up on me. And she’s looking me right in the eye, and she’s got a loose, relaxed body, and I know that she still would like to continue doing some more exercises.

And so I tell people, like you said, it’s very dependent upon the stress that day that’s present in the dog, the dog itself, you know, the environment you’re in. But if you have the time, by all means, I think the biggest thing I tell people is the consistency. Just like with training, if you can block off a five to 10-minute window for 30 days, if you have a set time that you do this, just like anything, if you build those habits over time, you will see small changes.

So I have people that will do it for five to 10 minutes, 30 days, and at the end of that stint of time, they start to see these different changes in their dog’s behavior. And so that’s what’s really fascinating. If you really put in the work, just like with training, you will start to see results with it.

So that was very different, the last thing you mentioned, that what, as a trainer, the whole time I’ve been picturing- Okay, I’m about to train a dog. What are we gonna do- Yeah … before, during, and after we train? Yeah. But what you were just- Yeah … talking about is also just doing this on a daily basis, regardless of training, regardless- Yeah

of going out in public, to just establish a better baseline with the dog, it sounds like? 

Yes. Yes. So yeah, definitely… So yeah, sorry for the confusion there. No. 

Definitely- Not, not confusion at all. I think it was just, uh- Yeah, yeah. I- I see things, you know, very narrower, uh, very narrow- Yeah … sometimes as training-focused.

Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. So yeah, I mean, I don’t know. I’m, I’m assuming that most dog trainers have their own dogs. Am I correct with that, that most of them have a dog? Very 

few do not. Yeah, yeah. 

I was gonna say, I mean, I’ve kinda got questions for you if you don’t have a dog and you’re a dog trainer. Um, but no.

So yeah, I mean, you can use it with other dogs that you’re training, the, you know, prior and post and during. But if with your own dog, if you have the ability, you know, during the day, I’ve seen it become something that’s really, really beneficial for that. So that’s what I was kinda referencing. If it’s your own dog and you have that ability to do that, that’s, it’s another great thing to add in the toolkit there.

Okay. Now s- circling back to timing- Yeah … I had, and length, length of the session. I, I watched a podcast the other day, really interesting, talking about the power of sunlight and- Mm … how, you know, just on the body. And the guy- Yeah … was an MD talking about after 15 minutes, that you need 15 minutes of the light to activate the mitochondria in your cell, and once y- in your cells.

Once you do, really good things happen. But then he went on to say, but 16 minutes is no better than 15. 20 is no better than 15. There’s like, it kinda cuts off at a certain point. But it, it’s- Yeah … but it’s also not worse. I’m curious- Yeah … here, is it similar if, if five minutes is good, is 30 better? Now, and this is obviously dependent on is the dog happy- Yeah

or not, but- Yeah … does it keep getting better and better and better, or is there a time of just really diminishing returns? 

Yeah. I love that example because we talk about sunlight a lot, too, even for dogs and humans. Super, super beneficial for the nervous system, so I love that tie-in. But to answer your question, I would definitely say it goes based upon what the dog is conveying to you because you can definitely push a dog past their limits, for sure.

And I’ve seen people, you know, for example, it’s been a while. I remember I got a message from a lady. She’s like, “Man, you know, I was doing a somatic session and after about 15 minutes the dog just looked, like, submissive at that point. Like, it didn’t really care.” And I was like, “Yeah,” because the dog probably at that point felt like it had to do that.

You know, the dogs, there can come a point where they either fawn or they walk away. You know, dogs are very intelligent. Some dogs are like, “No, I’m done with this. I’m gonna move out of the environment.” But some dogs will just become submissive out of fear or other things. And so- What I tell people is you watch body language like a hawk, and that’s why we really train that in Dog Semantics 101 and on our pages.

Because if you’re really honed in to your dog and you’re watching, you should be able to know the moment that they start to m- get stressed or uneasy with it. And so that’s where I’m always watching. And I tell people, like I said, you know, look at all the things in context together. I mean, if their body’s loose and their eyes are relaxed and blinking and their jaw’s loose and, you know, like, they, they’re just sitting there and you can tell, like, their ears are down, okay, that’s a dog that’s most likely calm.

But if you start petting them and doing some of these techniques and you see, like, their eyes, like you see whale eyes start to present, or you see them start to stiffen or, like, turn their head even just a little bit, what I do is I take my hands off the dog and I give them a choice. Like, I literally pause.

That pausing is what’s crucial in this, is because anyone can keep their hands all day long on a dog, but it doesn’t give the dog really a choice in telling the owner if they’re done with it or not. So I think that’s a really key part in this, is like I’ll do chest circles on my dog for two minutes and I’ll take my hand off, and if she backs away or turns her head, I’m like, “Oh, she’s done.”

But if she leans her head in towards me or, like, softens her body a little bit more, then I know, okay, she’s actually presenting signs here that she wants to continue. So that is a really good question because oftentimes we don’t wanna push a dog past that ’cause it can become more unhealthy versus actually doing a shorter session.

Okay. You had just mentioned, I guess, at the end there, pushing a dog, and as a trainer, that’s always a, a… It’s a big challenge figuring out when do you push, how much do you push, ’cause if you don’t push at all- Yeah … some dogs are never gonna get better. 

Exactly. 

Are there times… I guess, how do you handle that if you have a, someone takes your course and they say, “Hey, my dog just doesn’t dig any of this stuff-” Mm-hmm.

and I, I can’t do it,” or, “He’s too excited-” Yeah. “… and I can’t get him to listen,” are there times that you tell them, “Well, here’s how you’re gonna push,” and I don’t mean push as in like- Yeah … hold them down- Yeah … and force them, right? 

Yeah. 

But- Yeah … how do you handle that? 

Usually that’s when I tell them, “Hey, do you have a trainer?”

Because here’s the thing, just like even with humans, if you force your hands on a dog that doesn’t wanna be touched, that registers as a threat to their nervous system. Just like think about if you’re out in public, someone comes up behind you and they put their arms around you, and it’s a total stranger or someone that you’re n- you know, you have never recognized before.

You’re gonna be like, “What the heck? Get your hands off of me.” Your body’s gonna mobilize. It’s doing what it was made to do. And so with somatics, that’s why I always tell people we never force it, because at that point we’re actually overriding the whole thing of trying to help the dog feel safe. And so that’s where I’m like, okay, is the dog actually properly trained?

Do they have structure and clarity in their life? Because that affects a lot if they actually wanna approach their owner, if they wanna be touched, you know? I think it plays a really big role in that, because there’s all these pieces, you know, that come together that help us look, like zoom out and look at a dog’s life and why are they doing what they’re doing.

So I think I… that’s my number one question is usually is the dog trained? 

Okay. Yeah, and as a trainer, what I was picturing is I see dogs all the time that don’t want to be handled either by their owner or by a new person. Mm. And so what I’ll usually do is slip lead them- Yeah … and then walk. Yeah. And at first we might walk with zero structure.

We’re just going. Yeah. And it gives them something else to focus on besides just, hey, there’s a scary person here. Yeah. And then depending on the dog, I might introduce some play, I might introduce some- Yeah … structure and get them to walk, you know, closer to me. Yeah. And then I might- Yes … introduce some name recognition and a little bit of training, and after all of that, touch is suddenly much easier, right?

Because you have a- Yes … relationship and the, and the dog is calmer. Mm-hmm. So I would just assume there’s a lot of times people are trying to do some of this stuff maybe too soon without- Yeah … having that relationship with the dog. 

Mm. Yeah, you nailed that on the head. That’s true is that relationship has to come first before a dog actually feels safe enough to let you in their space, and that does kind of bring back to mind a lot of, like, shelter dogs that we would work with.

When they would come in the room, they would be pretty shut down and aversive to being touched. And one of the first things that we would do to try to bridge that gap is we would either pull out a toy, and that can kind of gauge where their brain’s at, ’cause if they’re not able to play and interact, we know they’re shut down or they’re overly mobilized.

And, uh, the other thing that we would do is sometimes even with food is we would try to see are they even able to actually swallow food and dige- like, you know, eat it because that also shows where the nervous system is at. But I love what you said about walking side by side because I’ve seen trainers that have done that with dogs that are, you know, they’re special cases.

I’ve seen them put the dog, like you said, on a slip lead, and they walk. And that, like you said, it distracts the dog from, hey, oh, that’s a threat right there. But when you start to walk side by side, it clicks something in that dog’s brain where it now is realizing, okay, this is not a threat. This is actually okay.

And then you can get in their space, and you can start to actually do some of these techniques. 

Absolutely. I’m curious to hear a little more about your work in shelters. So that is, shelter work is hard no matter what you’re doing. Yeah. Whether it’s, whether it’s what you do, training, just trying to hang out with the dogs, it’s all difficult because- Yes

you have no history. You’re in a stressful environment already. 

Yeah. 

I’m just curious to hear w- like what have you done with shelters and rescues, and how does it go? 

Yeah. It is definitely one of the hardest environments, and I’ve actually recently backed off just a little bit just to give myself a break because it’s a very overwhelming environment.

Because like you said, there’s a much bigger risk for you involved as the person because a lot of these dogs do see you as a threat. 

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So a lot of- Mm-hmm … what we do in shelters and rescues is I will go in there, I’ll explain to the staff, “Hey, this is what we do.

This is how we can often help dogs.” And it’s also a really great observational tool ’cause it helps us essentially observe a dog and understand what’s its window of tolerance. Because we’ll even do like kennel tests where we go and we sit outside a dog’s kennel, and I’ll set a stopwatch on my phone. And I’ll do deep breathing, and I’ll sit on the floor beside a dog on the other side of the glass, and I’ll measure how long does it take for them to come down from an activated state.

Because that gives us essentially data on where their nervous system’s at and what’s their baseline, what’s their window of tolerance, so to speak. And so I’ll do that where I’m not with the dog, so to speak, but beside it guarded by glass. And then on the other hand, what we’ll do is I’ll go into a neutral room, and I’ll position myself on the floor away from the door.

Sometimes I’ll kind of sit up in a little bit of like a curled like position, not like super like curled, but like I’d wanna present myself as, hey, I’m not a threat. The dog comes in. I don’t make eye contact. I don’t talk to it. I don’t touch it. And I simply observe for like the first 10 minutes. I watch out of the corner of my eyes.

If the dog approaches me, I don’t touch it yet. I just let it sniff me, whatnot. And then what I’ll do is essentially it’s all dependent upon the dog And what essentially they choose to do afterwards. But I’ll sit there, and if they approach me for a second time, I’ll often, I’ll just stick out my hand, just real low, and if they sniff it, if they engage with it, I know that, okay, hey, I am gonna see if they’re open to, like, maybe, like, a chest anchor hold, or maybe I’ll put my hand in a really neutral area on their side.

But I am watching just like this to see, ’cause, like, some of those dogs can turn on a dime, and all of a sudden you see their hackles raise and, like… That’s where it can be scary, is ’cause you don’t know. Even if the dog doesn’t have a bite history, tho- in a second, because you’re a stranger, it can be very, very intimidating and overwhelming.

But there’s also been cases where I’ve met some of the most amazing dogs that genuinely actually just want connection. They want that. And so I made, I made a lot of sweet dog friends in the shelter world. But there’s also some dogs too where it’s like they don’t actually– They need training. They need a lot of training before they can actually interact with a person.

I think that that’s gonna be really key, and so that’s where I always say, “That’s not my lane. Here, I think you should probably get a trainer involved.” So, yeah. 

That’s awesome that you do that. And I can understand taking a break. Working in shelter and rescue, it is stressful. Obviously there’s- Yeah … danger there, but there’s also just stress and anxiety and feeling bad of the dogs you see on a daily basis.

So it’s, it’s not an easy thing to do long term, no matter what your role is. 

Yeah. Well, I mean, once again too, I mean, I, you know, a lot of times I even thought, I’m like, man, at this point, you know, there’s certain scenarios where it’s like, should I be wearing a bite suit when I go in, you know? Should I have- Mm-hmm

you know, and I know you deal… Do you ever, I’m curious, do you deal with a lot of dogs that have bite, um, bite histories? 

I do. Yeah, I, I see a lot of aggression. And what’s interesting is clients often say, you know, “It’s amazing. I can’t believe, you know, you do this and you work with these aggressive dogs.”

And what I always tell them is, as a trainer, we have so many tools at our disposal, and we don’t put ourselves in hard situations. Yeah. I feel worse for like, for a veterinarian. I think that’s way harder because you don’t have the time. Yeah. So like when I meet a, a dog and it’s trying to attack, well, I don’t have to look at his teeth today.

I don’t have to look- Yeah … in his ears, right? Yeah. So I, I think trainers, people often think we have the hardest or most dangerous job, but when you’re skilled, you’re putting yourself in safe situations. I’m not sitting on a floor with an aggressive dog. Yeah. Right? No. And not to, not to judge anyone who does.

No, no. 

But I would have him on a leash and we’re get… I’m getting him away from the owner and working in the yard or outside. So there’s a lot of ways to do it safely, but man- Yeah … vets, groomers, and shelter workers, right, that a new dog comes in- Yeah … and they’re trying to figure out, you know, how to get this dog out of his run and th- there’s a, there’s a lot of danger there.

I know. You, you see those videos, and I’m always sitting there on the edge of my chair. I’m like, that, that person’s gonna get bit today, and it’s not. Mm-hmm. And that’s one thing, you know, I wanna preface what you said there. Yeah. We, I tell people, ’cause you know, some people see my videos and they’re like, “Oh, I should go try this with this dog,” or, “This…

I should go into shelters,” and whatnot. And not saying that you can’t go do that, but when there’s a dog that has a bite history or any ounce of aggression, I will never put myself on the floor. That’s, I only put myself on the floor if the shelter staff have said, “Hey, this dog never has shown any signs of aggression.

They let me come up, let me pet him.” Even then I always start out sometimes in a chair. Even if I have an ounce of like, hmm, I’ll set myself in a chair. I’ll sometimes even have a gate. I’ll hold up a gate in front of me just to prevent, just to have a barrier. But that’s one thing too. I think a lot of us, you know, like you said, we gotta be safe about it.

We gotta put ourself- Make room … in places where we know that we’re gonna prioritize our safety first, and yeah. 

And that, that’s what’s tough with social media ’cause there’s so many decisions you make. So if you post a video of you sitting on the ground with a dog, and then on the next one you might do something completely different.

Yeah. But people a lot of times don’t know all that goes into it, and that would take a 20-minute video to explain why you know, why, you know, why there’s such a difference. 

Yeah. Yeah, and that’s the thing is that’s where you really can’t… In the dog world, I’ve learned everyone has an opinion on something.

And there’s perspectives on every- it’s a little brutal out there, I’m not gonna lie. Um, and that’s where being able to explain what you’re doing, giving context for it, that’s really, really helpful in the end. 

And and you hit the nail on the head. The dog world can be a little bit brutal, and dog trainers love to eat their own.

I’m not really sure why, but it seems like it’s always been a thing, and it continues to be one, for sure. 

Yeah, definitely. I think I, I talked to a trainer a while back, and we both said, we’re like, “Man, you would think that we could all come together for the cause of dogs,” but there’s just, there’s such a hard line there.

There’s a lot of division, and that’s where I always tell people, I situate myself on both sides of the fence. I don’t go one way or the other. I tell people, okay, for example, if I had the cure for cancer, am I gonna give it to just one group of people, or am I gonna give it to as many people as I can? So if I have something that can help a dog regulate and recover from stress, I’m not gonna just, you know, gatekeep that to just one group of people.

I want everyone to be able to have access to that. And so that’s where it’s been real interesting. Like you said, you, there’s, there’s a lot of friction in the dog community, for sure. 

There is. Well, just speaking about dog trainers big picture, if you could just out of nowhere get every dog trainer to adopt one of your methods tomorrow, what would it be?

Yeah. I will say this all day long. If there was one method, just one piece of advice, it’s pretty simple. Slow down. That’s what we all need to do. If we can slow down, that creates an environment where safety is possible, the body can stop bracing, and where we can really heal and recover. And I think that it’s something that I constantly have to work on, but any time I slow down and I’m actually present, and any time I teach my dog to slow down, that’s when I really, really start to see a whole new dog emerge and a whole new version of myself too.

We’re all better when we slow down and we stop rushing and we stop hurrying. That’s really when we can help see the body become the best version of itself. 

That is amazing, and hopefully people take that to heart. I like that. 

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Like I said, I- No worries … this has been… Yeah. 

Oh, no, sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off there.

No, 

no, no. You’re good. I was just gonna say- All right … this is, this has been a fantastic conversation. 

Yeah. I wish we had more than an hour, but love having you on here. Love hearing what you have to say, and we’ll put all your links and everything in the description. So everyone listening, if you wanna buy Rose’s course, I think you should.

Buy it. Try it. Put a comment on the video on this, uh, episode. Let us know how it’s working for you. Anything we can do to help dogs and relieve their stress and make their training go better is definitely worth trying. 

Yeah. Thank you, guys. I appreciate it.