Welcome to Dog Pro Radio. Today we are joined by a legend in the dog training world, Joel Silverman. Joel has trained marine mammals such as killer whales. He trains dogs for Hollywood. He also works with pet dogs and tours around the country. You probably also know him from his TV show, good Dog, you. And on top of that, he has ridden, I tried to count, it was too many, roughly a thousand books on dog training, I wanna say.

So he’s a prolific author. Welcome to the show, Joel. Hey, thank you. Thanks for having me. Did I get my numbers right? Was it roughly a thousand books? 

Yeah, 1,004. Four. 

It looks good. On the website, I can tell you that you’re up by 995. Well, welcome to the show. Excited to have you on. Thanks. Good to be here.

So there is so much to talk about today. Everyone who knows that you were coming on asks like, what, what are we gonna talk about? What are we gonna focus on? And I mean, there’s so much we could spend an hour and a half on any of a dozen topics, but why don’t we start by just tell everyone about you.

You’ve got such a cool background, very different than the average dog trainer. So you wanna walk us 

through your journey? Well, basically I grew up in Southern California. Um, and so my parents were both teachers and so we would always go on vacation in the late, late summer. Like it would be like the first week of September, I believe it was like, ’cause they’d always go back to school September 16th.

That was like September 15th, 16th. That was always day to go back to school. So my parents were teachers and we’d always go down to San Diego and you know, this is, I was 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 years old. And we watched the, you know, we’d go to, um, we had a trailer, we’d stay a trailer there and then we’d go to all these different places.

We’d always go to SeaWorld and I always watched the, um, the train, the killer whales. And I was just really fascinated with the killer whales. Always fascinated. And at the same time, I had a dog. I was training, I was like 13 years old, 12 or 13. I started training this dog on my, on our own, on my own. And so I had this dog.

And then of course I went to SeaWorld every summer. All of a sudden, 15, 14, 15 years old, I was like, you know how, you know, it’s like, okay, well how do you become a train, you know, and stuff. And at the time it was like they were hiring people, like right from the park, you know, you had to get your foot in the door, like the food and beverage people, park operations, that’s like those people got hired as trainers.

Really cool. There was like no school for that. You’re just like, oh yeah, we’ll just hire the person right from the park. And so I moved down to San Diego, um, after high school to pick up trash at SeaWorld to become a trainer. That was my story. I did that a couple years. Um, the director of training at the time, Bruce Stevens really liked me and everything like that, but he’s like, you know, you’re kinda young or still only, you know, 19 years old.

There’s a college called Mopar College. It’s, it’s in Southern California and it’s a wild, they do have a wild animal training program. It’s called Exotic Animal Training, manage. You actually get as, as degree in exotic animal training. He recommended me. I got accepted. I mean, it’s really hard to get accepted to it.

And it’s, it was back then and it’s really hard right now. It’s like a lottery thing to get accepted. And I got accepted and I went to the program, finished, um, started doing the animal Show Universal Studios real briefly for a short period of time, just about a year. Then all of a sudden SeaWorld hired me, um, got hired.

I was a trainer, worked at SeaWorld Dolphins, sea Lion and Killer Wells were the main, main things I worked with. Um, when I was there, I trained, we did a lot of water work with, with the animals. Um, and probably six, six hours a day in the water with the killer wells and the whole show with me in the water with three animals and left SeaWorld in 83.

Worked with a company, um, with the time of, I knew this guy that contracted all the, uh, dolphin shows at six flag parks at the time in 1983 and 84. There were, there were, there were like 14, six fives parks, and they all had dolphin shows. And then we had the contracts, almost all those shows. And so me and a couple other trainers would fly around.

We did the coordination. I did a lot of water work. I trained the dolphin like a Roman ride, dolphins, you know, riding on their backs and stuff like that. I incorporated the Roman ride in a couple of different parks. Um, did some water work with, you know, got them into the water with the dolphins. They had never been in the water with the dolphins before.

Um, and so, um, do, I mean, dolphins can be, you know, they, they’re fine with the water, but they can be aggressive too. You know, they, and so if they’d never had the water with you and, and do things that to freak ’em out and stuff like that. So, um, they, um, so I did that for a couple years and then I went back doing animal show Universal Studios, and I got, got into training animals for movies and commercials.

This is like the mid to late eighties, um, movies and commercials. So I did a lot of, you know, TV shows. I did Christmas vacation and movie s vacation and stuff like that. Back to the future, I got back to the future I actually got from the shelter and trained in, originally I work on the, on the movie, but I actually trained in, or.

But I was working on another TV series at the time and I couldn’t, I couldn’t do that. So, um, so I did a lot of, did a lot of movies and stuff like that. And then, um, what up happening was, um, when I was doing Empty Nest, uh, I did a Empty Nest, this TV series called Empty Nest and we were spin off with Golden Girls.

We, and it, it was about the closest thing to a full-time job you could ever have in the TV industry. It was really cool. And we were like a top 10 show and we would shoot in front of a live audience. And so what happened was I would work bear the dog on the show in front of a live audience while they were doing the wardrobe changes.

’cause I mean, we’d do like one scene, they’d have to wardrobe changes and so they have, they have a comedian out there and he’d fill the time and stuff like that. So I’d work, so somebody saw me working the dog and I had a microphone or everything ’cause I grew up, you know, performing, talking in front of people and stuff.

So somebody goes, Hey, we wanna do a video and um, and we wanna shoot with you and this dog. We did a video and ended up shooting a video in 1989, um, called the Hollywood Dog Training Program. So I, I named another one called the Hollywood Dog Training Program of, it’s, it’s on stay and learn. The same name, but if you Google Hollywood Dog training program, you’ll, you’ll actually see my old older one and you’ll know the difference.

’cause the older one, I’m only 29 and I have hair totally opposite of be the same. And so we sold, anyways, an infomercial. It came out as an infomercial in 1989 and 90 19 90 sold like 300,000, three 400,000 those. And that’s kind of what got me working in front of people and teaching people. Um, so it all came from, you know, being a performer in Southern California and stuff like that in front of people and being on camera.

And that’s what got me into teaching. And then 10 years later, animal Planet contacted me about doing another show on a show called Good Dog You, which was one of the very first shows on Animal Planet. Um, crocodile Hunter was on at the time. And, and it was just, you know, he had just started itch up, I think two years before.

And so my show’s one of the highest greatest shows on Animal Planet, which came out. Um. Then for some reason they didn’t wanna do a, they did a second year with another dude. I don’t know why they didn’t wanna do with me showing down the toilet. My show was the highest rated show. It was like, it was amazing.

And, um, it’s just sad because they could have got, they could have just, you know, done it and they just knew somebody else, I guess. So, um, did that then, um, decided to start writing some books? I think people, what happened was I would do personal appearances and people would think of me, they’d look at me as a TV guy or the video guy, guy from the infomercial.

But they didn’t take me seriously as a dog, like, as somebody to teach. And my passion is teaching people has always been teaching people. So, um, I kinda had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder, so I was like, you know, I’m gonna start writing books, you know. And one of the things I had done is I was doing a lot of stuff, you know, speaking at humane size, animal shelters across the nation, doing different things.

And, um, I saw that I felt like when people would adopt a dog from shelter and take home, they weren’t getting the right information on the dog. Because I see like older people. Leaving with a very, very reactive dog, like a Jack Russell. And I’m like, that’s not a really good convo. You know? Or I see a young couple, you, young guy, a girl, 20 years old with some dog who’s just really shy and timid.

And I’m like, you know, I think they probably want a dog, like, you know, like the other dog or golden retriever ball with and stuff like that. Play with. And so, um, I wrote my very first book called What Color Is Your Dog? And it’s, um, it really is about, you know, you know, defining, we’ll talk a little bit about it today.

Um, but it’s about giving your dog a color and train your dog based upon that. Pick a color. And so, and the colors are based on the dog’s personality. Um, and then I came out with a second book called More What Color Is Your Dog? And that More What color is your dog book? Was really, the reason I did it was because I realized after that first book, your dog really starts to, I talked about the changing of colors, but.

It really, really needed to be talked about more in that second book about change, how dogs do change colors and stuff like that. And they changed colors literally in a training session. You know, they can show you different colors and stuff like that. So, um, wrote that book and then I did another one called, um, take Two Training, training Solutions for Rescue Dogs.

And it’s basically kind of problem solving issue issues. Um, did another one called Bond With Your Heart Training With Your Brain Brain, which is a self-help book for parents, teacher managers and supervisors. It talks and it talks about the similarities of like, the best animal trainers I’ve met are simply nice people.

The best teachers I’ve met are nice people. The best managers I’ve ever met were just nice people. And all of those people put themselves in the place of the animal or person. And so, um, so that was so bond with the art journey to brink it. And then the last book I did was Rituals. And Rituals I did was because I really believe that dogs, you know, dogs want to, you know, pattern.

They want to have a, a ritual and sometimes you want to build on rituals, build on that ritual and get. Increase on that ritual. If it’s a high pray drive thing and you’re training a bomb dog, a drug dog or your agility work you wanna do, and your dog was kind of reactive and you want to, you know, channel that energy in that direction, you’ll do that.

But there’s a lot of times when they develop rituals of jumping up on people to pray, drive or bark other dogs and jumping counter surfing and you know, getting the trash. But those things are things you don’t wanna build on those rituals. You wanna get rid of those things. So that’s why I wrote that book.

And the book goes into, um, a lot of problem solving stuff too, as well. Triggers, we talk a lot about triggers and things like that, so we can talk a little bit about that book too as well. And then, um, so start writing the books. And then, um, um, in about eight years ago, I launched my, um, dog training certification courses because I felt like I met so many trainers that were out there, fairly new trainers.

And whether they were good or bad, it had nothing to do with them learning online. It was online dog training, like it still is. A lot of it was. I feel like, and I’m not a, I’m not a good reading person. I’m a, I’m a person. Like, show me how to do it. And there are a lot of people I think, that are like me and you know, some doctors I, people I’ve taught are people that are never really good in school.

They just love animals and they have a really, really good way of handling the animal. If they got a way of hand out handling the animal, you, I could train anybody, be a dog trainer, you know. And so I started doing this, these courses and the courses really, really took off. Um, started in humane societies, eventually got into dog daycare businesses, helping dog daycare businesses that did not have dog training, incorporated dog training in their business.

So they already have, you know, a staff and they’ve already, you know, and it worked out great because it still works out great because these people handle dogs like all day long. So again, they’re just handling dogs. They take dogs from here, they over here, and they go there and there. So they’re just handling dogs.

And so if you’re a really good handler and you really wanna do it, good trainer, you do it and just need to understand how do it. So I did that and then about. I was doing that, everything was going great. And then I was speaking at the IACP conference in, um, in, uh, Colorado Springs. And, uh, this was six years ago, whatever.

And about long ago, seven years ago, and at the time I read into Larry and I, I wanna talk to Larry because in my courses, I used one of his videos on e-commerce, um, old video he did with the gold, with the, well, the very first session. It was the very first session. If you know, with ecos, I, you gotta be able to, people can understand kind of how it works in, in one session and whether you explain or you and watch a video or whatever, I mean, they just need to understand that first session really prior to that session or what we’re doing with it and how it works.

Um, so I met Larry and of course Larry had known, known me from Animal Planet. So we, we became friends, you know, and stuff like that through there. And we decided to do a, um, an event together. Well then I met Jay at there as well, and I didn’t know Jay was gonna be there. I just said Amy sat, Amy ler actually introduced of Jay.

And Jay and I spoke throughout the whole weekend and I was really fascinated by his story. And what he did, you know, basically redirecting dogs, dogs through play, you know, instead of using treats, I’ve always used treats. Um, but he doesn’t using, um, Jay doesn’t using play. I mean, I can explain what Jay does and I told Jay, ’cause Jay will just, he’s so great at tea, you know, talking and teaching people, he can go on, but I literally gimme a minute, I’ll tell you exactly what he does, you know?

Um, but he, you know, and, and so I’ve always used redirection using treats and of course he doesn’t use play and, and incredible in how he breaks down play and stuff like that is just amazing. So Larry and I did an event in, uh, Tucson. It was like in December. And so we did one in Tucson and then I, maybe somebody was earlier in the summer maybe.

And then, um, I told him, I was like, God, I met Jay. What did you bring him along? So we decided to set one up for, um, St. Louis later. I mean, early in, like it was January that next year. It was like six years ago, whatever. And all the events did. And so once we brought Jay on and that was it, you know, we did all three of us.

So it’s just really good because it’s three different styles, you know, it’s my style, which is. Movie animal trainer, breaking animals, breaking things into small steps. We do value advanced behaviors and stuff like that. It’s a lot of fun stuff. Um, but a lot of basics where people could, you know, learn the basics and how I teach it.

You got Larry, who’s really, who’s just one of the best in America as far as I’m concerned, but really teaches about ECOS and just good basic training in general. Very, very humble person. And then you got Jay. We just, it’s a whole different style. It’s a whole different deal and that he has to, to offer and stuff like that.

So works that worked out really, really good. So we’ve been doing that for a while. And then, um, so everything’s been, we’ve been kind of doing that. Um, I just kind of, right now I patented my dog training collar about 10, 12 years ago. It’s alternative training collar. So I just sell those on Amazon. I kind of do those, do this stuff.

I, everything’s kind of cool with doing this stuff with Larry and Jay. Then all of a sudden, this thing I’m filling in my lap, um, a new dog training franchise just starting up called Trusted Paw. And Peter Townend owns, um, he actually owns, was was the owner originally started up, um, snap Fitness. He’s not the owner.

He sold to mistaken. Snap Fitness is one of the largest fitness chains in the world. He’s a Fran, he’s a franchise, so he’s a franchise guy. So he wanted to create a kind franchise for Zon Pop thing. It’s not where people are gonna go get done trained, be like, okay, start my business. This is something that works.

You have whatever you’re doing for your, your life making money. This is something you just kinda do on the side and you start doing on the side. And as you start getting better and better and better and get more clients, what ends up happening this. So hopefully maybe it’s something you can, you know, walk away from your business, but it’s supposed to work hand in hand with what you’re doing and stuff like that.

So we just launched it just recently, um, as well. And, um, that’s kinda my, that’s kinda my story. I still do a little movie work. Um, actually the only mo movie work I do is actually a guy named Gray Malin. Um, he’s one of the top photographers in America. We shoot all over the world. We shoot dogs and hotels and all these different iconic places.

So I still actually do stuff with him and um, and that’s really the only, you know, movie work I do, I do right now. So it’s my story. 

That’s a lot. I, I don’t even know where to start. I’ve got so many questions. I don’t Exactly. Well, 

if you, I figured it’s always good because it just gives you like a lot of fuel.

Yeah. There’s plenty of fuel. I guess first question would be, you said you trained the dog for Christmas vacation. The Rotweiler? Yeah. Yeah. The one that was like, um, went after like the the Drooly one. Right? 

The drooly one. And we, you know, there’s stuff that you put on, I, I, because I’ve never used it before, but special effects gave us stuff.

His name was Snots. That’s, and they put this, and they put this stuff, they gave us this stuff to put on and it would say they make it through, they add powder and water and it makes it this weird, you know, this, this, this gross. And we put it on and, um, yeah. So it was, uh, so we did Christmas vacation. I worked on it for a short, a short period of time.

I, ’cause I was somebody else’s dog. I worked the dog on the, a couple days and the shot that I did, the days I did work, um, the, um. It’s the scene where you first see the dog, they come running outta the mobile, mobile home and then they come and they’re all, it’s like evening all around, um, uh, Chevy Chase, you know, and stuff like that.

And when they leave, it’s ironic. This is a great story. When they leave, the director wanted the dog to be so everybody leaves. The dog is now staring at, is is sitting in front of Chevy Chase. But everybody was there. Everybody leaves. And as they leave, the dog is sitting, staring at Chevy Chase, but the camera is on a crane.

Now, back, back in the day, this is when they shot, these have cranes, now they got drones, okay. Which is different. But then on cranes, big giant, a crane is this big, massive thing and the camera starts backing up. Backing up. It goes like back up like 50 yards away from the dog. And the dog’s gotta be, and they wanted the dog to be staring at Chevy Chase for like two or three minutes, which feels like a year.

Yeah. Yet he’s just gotta be staring at it. And you gotta hope he’s. I didn’t know it, but, and I don’t know if they knew that’s what they were gonna do, but the end of the movie with the credits is Chevy Cha is that shot of Chevy Chase with the dog staring at him that three minute, that long shot of the dog with him.

And so, um, but anyway, we did that shot and we did a couple other things as well. It wasn’t the greatest shoot that I have to tell you, the director that we worked with at the time on the job, the job, I dunno if this is very first shoot, but he was just a real pain to work with. Matter of fact, he ended up getting rid of the dog and changing to a different rottweiler somewhere in the middle of the shoot.

And they brought another Rottweiler in and the shot of, I think somebody told me that shot at the, there’s a squirrel at the front door with a wrap that all this stuff that, hey, mayhem dog jumps up on the actor, whatever, the actress, the stunt woman actually got bit by the rotweiler in that shot. And they kept that shot that, so the, I think if you play it in slow motion, you can actually see if not, and I think somebody said that’s the shot where um, yeah, I think, I think the stuntman actually got bit in that shot.

I was not that. But yeah, it was not a good thing. And just, and Chevy Chase was not the greatest person in the world to work with. I have to tell you, I’ve worked with a lot of actors before and he was not, he was not a fun guy to work with. 

I’ve heard that many times. Which is such a shame ’cause you watch him and he’s hysterical and he seems like he’d the nicest guy.

It’s funny how people have kind of come out recently and said, yeah, he, that’s well. And I’m like, you’re right. 

Well, why don’t we spend a minute on killer whales? I feel like that is a really misunderstood animal. It’s, can you walk us through a little bit about what they’re all about and what it’s like Just training a killer whale, obviously, I would assume very different than engaging and hanging out with a dog.

Yeah. Very, very different. First of all, um, people have to remember it’s the number one predator in the ocean. It’s a top predator. Nothing hunts a killer whale. So like when they, when you first work with them, you know, they’re, they have no fear of anything at all. They’re not afraid of anything. Okay. Um, they, um, are member of the tooth whale family, which is the same as a porus in a dolphin.

So being a member of the tooth whale family in general, if you were to generalize tooth wail animals, um, like, um, their skin’s real soft and they love being rubbed down. And the killer whales especially, they love their, um, tongues rubbed, their gums rubbed and stuff like that, you know, as they, they like it a lot.

Um, they are smart, you know, and so if they can, you can condition ’em with a, a, a marker with a whistle or something like that, all of a sudden you start giving ’em food. Um, that creates, that creates creativity, you know, with, with them. And I’m speaking, I’m speaking in general right now because it’s just kilowatts on elephants, so they like that relationship.

They like the socialization stuff. They like the tactical reward, they like the treats. They love to learn. Um, so having said that, um, if you, what I learned with working with killer whales, if you don’t ever put yourself in position where you are setting yourself up to get the, where the whale is like upset or frustrated and you’re in the water with the whale, you probably have a really, really good chance of, of existing, you know.

Um, but if you go in the water with the whale after, you know, not a good session, the whale’s pissed off happy. Um, that’s when you run the risk of, you know, being pushed around and things like that at crap, I would think. Um, I never really had any of those situations happen to me. Um, they got a little pushy a few times, but it was always after something happened.

After a session, after like the worst. Give you an example. Like with a killer whale. You know, like they take a lot of stuff personally. Like if you have two whales, like they jump over something, one gets the, a rope and the other, and one comes back and the one that hits the rope, you don’t give the whale, you give to the other whale.

And they’ve seen this before, they’ve kind of seen this pattern before. That will piss ’em off. Okay. That will piss ’em off. And they’ll remember that. Okay. That’s the mentality. That’s the way they are. They’re like, you know what? And then what they start doing too is they have this relationship, this two way, this two way communication, which is incredible.

So then you take like, let’s say, and they’ll, they’ll, they’ll do it for a couple reasons. They’ll do it to screw you over and they’ll also do it just to do it. But if I have a big old fish, right, and I go and two whales go with the rope and one hits the rope, they come back, the one that did it correctly, I give the whale the fish.

As quick as I give it to fish, their mouths are like, really, really, like, there are tons and everything they can do. They can almost, they could like tie a knot almost. I mean, they’re like, it’s what? They’re big, got these big old tongues, but they, they’re so like, you know, um, it’s so easy for them to do things with their mouth.

So when you throw the big fish in there, literally that whale will take the fish, break it in half, spit it out, and the other, and the other one will suck it in. They’ll take, they’ll share the, they’ll share the fish. It’ll be like, you’ll give them the fish, but I’m gonna share it with them. And they’ll share it as quick as you do it.

Or if you give ’em a handful of food, they’ll open the mouth, it’s like, blah, and spit it all out. And they’ll all, they’ll, they’ll take the food If the other whale screws up cons, like, that was like clockwork. I mean, they would do the like clockwork. And so, um, so if, you know, so then you say to yourself, okay, you did correctly.

I’m not gonna give you the food. Then now they both get pissed off. It’s ’cause they’re like, okay, we don’t get so at least this way. You know, like the whale’s like, okay, you know, I’m gonna, I’m like, you know, you gave me the food, I’m gonna give ’em the food. You know, we got, we got back with you type of thing.

But if you don’t give the whale something for that, then it becomes a thing where they can hold that in and be like, okay, I’m not, I’m not happy. So the message is, even with dolphins and stuff like that, we keep ’em happy. You know, you find ways to that don’t put yourself in that position. Um, when you give them cues to take off, like, you know, some of the cues you give them, you know, if you just give ’em a cue and just give ’em a cue and pretend and just a, a subtle cue, they should just take off.

But if you give really big cube, like you just look like you’re new to them and they, they’ll start messing with you. They like stuff like that. They’ll start screwing with like, new people and stuff like that. So you just have to go and pretend to kind of bluff ’em a little bit. Like, okay, I know what you’re doing.

I’m giving you a cube, I’ll walk away. You’re do the do valves and stuff like that. And because they’re really, really super smart. I gotta tell you another story. We had a whale in San Diego. Um, when we would do, um, this is great, when we would do the shows, um, we would set up all these different, at the time we were do a thing where the, the whale, the girl would lean over and the whale would come up and stick it tongue out and kiss the girl.

And we’d take a picture, um, something, take a, the, the, the park operations person take a picture. That’s, by the way, proper park operations person was me when I was like 16 years old. I was the guy. And so I’d pick the girl to get kissed and stuff like that. And so, but we’d have to set up these, um, um, some small little buckets with fish, with ice.

We put ice on top of it, keep it cool. So during the summer, so we’d go over here, we’d set this bucket. We had to go all the way over here. And so we always have, we would do the show with two killer whales, where we’d always have one killer whale out in the main pool as people are coming in the on and there’s like, you know, whole stadium wells, like 5,000 people.

And so we’re just setting up and you know, we’d be in our costumes. So we’d set up this here and I’d have to go across the bridge, walk across the stage, go across other. To that area. And that’s where the little girl touches the whale. There’s like a little girl, we’d have touched the whale stuff that you, you’re like, okay, like that would never happen now, but back then, I mean it did.

And so, um, so can dos, whale’s, name’s can do. And she was like amazing. She was an amazing killer whale. So smart. So what she would do is she would, like, when we came over to set the bucket, she’d follow us. And as, as she followed us, and she knew, and like the whales always knew that if we give ’em one fish, and if for some reason if you give ’em a fish and you, like, they run over and they, I don’t know, if they turn a fish to us, we’ll give ’em like five.

So they would find ways to like, give us, you know, give us a fish, you know, and stuff like that. Always give us fish. So I’d set the buckets up and as I go to the KISS platform, I have this big buck. I give her a fish and the audience would be like, you know, you got everybody watching her and stuff like that.

We had a mind that was coming in. So there’s all, all, all they were, he was like a warmup person. So all this stuff’s going on, but everybody’s watching candy. I give her the fish, I’d just give her, I just pop it to her and she eat it. But she would take the fish, she would go almost like a pork, was like, come outta the water really high and go down as I walked across the stage, slide out on the stage with the fish in her mouth, on her tongue with her, with her, um, with her, with on the tip of her tongue, wanting me to take it with her, with her making all these noises and shaking her head and stuff with her tail up in the air flubbing and stuff, making all these noise.

And the audience would just go crazy. And of course I give her a handful of fish and whatever, and I walk over. The other thing she did by, she did the same thing. She was like this little game, but man. If, if you don’t think that those animals have personalities, and if you don’t think those animals liked doing what they did, and I tell people all the time, it’s like, listen, you, you know, you can agree to disagree about animals in captivity.

I get it. I’m actually, you know, on the side of, you know, not having, you know, animals like that in captivity. However, you know, I understand the whales I worked with, the last ones ever collected. They were taken in, in, in the set, late seventies. Um, those last ones ever collected for a while. That was 50 years ago.

And, um, they love doing what they did and they love the people. And, um, the ping that really pisses me off when people say, well, they’re in this tank and they hate it. I was in the water with them for six hours a day. Yeah, I would, they’d be on their backs. We would have set and just lay on their back. So I would rub ’em on a big, on a pectoral flipper underneath their pec 12 flipper, which is about, you know, five feet.

It’s like their arm and it’s really warm. It’s like really warm. And even though they can’t pinch me, like I would go like this and she’d go like, she’d pinched my finger, but she couldn’t pinch my fingers. I’m just gonna pick her foot. But she, I pulled my finger away and then go up and I put my finger down and she’d go like this again.

I pulled my hand away and then we’d do it like, like for 15 minutes, she’d lay there holding her breath like upside down, laying on her back, doing, and I just put her stomach. And then that’s the, that’s the relationship stuff that we had, you know, with these animals and stuff like that. So the next time somebody tells you the animals weren’t happy, and especially when they have some of these morons that used to work at SeaWorld that, you know, that basically are, you know, pitch people for some of these anti SeaWorld people, um, they’re just, you know, they’re telling the true story stuff like that.

So that’s what I say, two 

sides, two sides to every story, that’s for sure. That’s right. So I have a question. You were talking about just how smart they are in their ability to hold a grudge. And one thing I find so amazing about dogs is how rarely a dog will hold a grudge. That’s true, that’s true. You know, the average dog, it doesn’t matter how, and obviously I’m not advocating to mistreat dogs, but however much they’re mistreated, they can have a terrible owner.

And it’s so rare to have a dog that truly holds a grudge. What, what do you see being the difference? Do you think it’s the intelligence level of the killer whale, or what’s the difference there? 

I don’t think dogs hold grudges as much as the trust issue is an that, that’s, that’s what I would say it’s the trust issue is the fact that, do I, do I trust you?

If something bad happened with the dog, you know, and they, and all of a sudden if something bad happened with the dog dog’s, like, oh, that was kind of weird, you know, whatever, and all of a sudden now you go back to the dog or whatever, it’s like, it may not be a grudge, the dog’s gonna hold, but it is a trusting.

It’s like, you know what? I don’t trust that you’re not gonna do that again. And I think I’m gonna nail you because you know what? I think you’re gonna do that again. You know, you grab him the back and I scruff, you scruff me. Nobody’s ever done this me before. Shouldn’t be that to me. And I hate that. And I’m gonna nail you next time you do it, you know?

So, um, so I mean, we, we cannot call it grudges, but it, it, it’s more of a trust type of thing. Um, but the whales will remember, the whales definitely will remember certain things, you know, and stuff like that. And so, um, and the dolphins too. I mean, dolphins, we had a dolphin named Domino at SeaWorld in San Diego.

I mean, they named, they call him being dominated because he put, put, like, put a bunch of people in the hospital and he, he completely, he rammed a couple and with their flutes, hit with their flukes, hit with their roone and stuff like that. And I, I got, I got my rib broken by happening. I dolphin, um, dolphin, I put Dolphin hin in Knots Berry Farm in 1986.

Um, and. She just know something I did or whatever, and it’s like, I think I made a move. I was swimming or something like that. My foot, I think I was trying water. I think I maybe, I think I may have touched her, hit her my knee, hit her, and she came back and just smacked me. And with a peanut, which is basically the flips are here and there’s a ridge that comes up here.

It’s like a, I mean, it’s like, it is so hard, you know? And that ri, if they hit with that ridge, that feed knuckle, that can do some major, major damage. Um, but anyway, yeah. So, uh, but yeah, so anyway, I think dogs, it’s pretty much, it’s more of a trust thing, I 

think. Yeah. To me it’s one of the things that makes dogs such a amazing creatures.

Let’s take a quick break to talk about our friends from the National Canine School for Dog Trainers. They have been a proud sponsor and supporter of the IECP for over 20 years now. National Canine is located in Columbus, Ohio, and they offer professional certifications and educational opportunities for dog trainers.

Since 1981, over 2,500 individuals have completed in-person instruction and received their certification at the National Canine School for Dog Trainers. National Canine graduates have created profitable and rewarding careers in all 50 states and in more than 50 countries and territories around the world.

We invite you to explore what National Canine has to offer. Please visit www.nknine.com for more information and now back to the show. So they just treat humans differently than they treat other animals, right? And I think we all notice that in recognize it, but I think very often people don’t spend enough time thinking about the why.

You know, how many dogs do you know that will no question haul off and attack another dog over their food or bone, or go after another animal just because it looks exciting, but would never consider showing aggression to a human. And it’s not accidental. Right. And it’s not just ’cause they were raised by a person.

There’s a lot more to it than that. 

Well, I think, I think with animals in general, you know, and I, and I’ve worked with chimps in orang Oranga times as well, and I’ll talk a lot about it. Um, but you know, like if you develop a relationship with an animal and you become the animal’s friend and you don’t, and you don’t put the animal in a position like the animal, like the animal’s not in a position to be like, well why, why am I gonna go after this guy?

Like, you know, I mean, there’s gotta be a reason the animal’s gonna go after somebody. And it’s like, if I can just go, Hey, I’m gonna be your friend, I’m gonna pet you, you treats we’re gonna work, we’re gonna have a good time. Like, why would they go? And all of a sudden just be like, you know, I just can’t stand you.

I’m gonna bite you. And it’s kind of along the lines of what you just said. Um, it’s the people that put themselves in that position. You create unsureness in the animal. And I’m certainly, you know, far from the specialist on aggression. ’cause the two guys I tour with I think are, are the best. Um, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m talking about this, but I’ve dealt with aggression before.

But, um, the one thing that we talk about, all three of us talk about, and that is the bond and relationship. You know, this is the one animal wants nothing more than be your friend. And I tell people, and I send all my books, you know, when you develop a bond, develop the love, develop a relationship, you get your dog in a place where your dog wants to please, he wants to make you happy, training is gonna be a lot easier.

It’s all gonna be, it’s, it’s your, it’s your fuel in the tank. That’s, that’s what’s gonna get the thing going. Can you be successful without developing a bonded relationship? Yeah, you can, you know, but why? You know, if there’s a choice between being like average and excellent and excellent as an option, how do you sell for average?

You know what I mean? And so it’s the same thing with with dog training. If you know that by developing the bonded relationship, your dog is gonna be a lot better. Just spend the time doing that. I mean, we have, a lot of times when people don’t, to our events, you’ll see, people will see, I mean, um, with Larry Janna we talk about all the time, you know, people come in and they get, you know, they’ve got the video, everybody’s got videos on, you know, I GP and compete and da dah and everybody’s work, work, work, work, work.

And I’m like, and you know, somebody has a working spot with me and there’s working with her, our working with dog. And like, just stop a second. You need to stop and just, you know, it’s a new area. Um, your dog hasn’t really worked here before. We just like, you can just stop and kneel down and just pet your dog.

And they’ll come down and just knee down, two pets, stand back up, start. It’s like, no, no, no. Just take your time. You know, like, just really let your dog just have a relationship with the dog. There’s no rush here. We have plenty of time all the time. The world, we see that a lot, you know, um, we talk about that a lot.

And that is everybody wants again to get to the finish line. They want that finished day and we want it to look great. You know, I personally think when dogs are working like. It looks weird, you know? I know it’s, they compete and every, the dog’s head looking up and they’re marching and the dog’s like glued to the person’s leg and stuff like that, looking up and oh my God, it looks great.

I think I, I don’t know. I’m a movie animal trainer, maybe I like the natural look, but I don’t know. It’s kind of weird to me, but I guess people are impressed with that, you know? So, um, but um, but anyway, yeah, so my big thing is, is that, um, is that people need to just really, really take the time, build the bond, build the relationship, understand this is an animal that wants nothing more to be your friend.

So, backing up a bit, and I think this ties into what you were just saying. You mentioned earlier your two books on the colors and on one of them you mentioned the second book. I think that a dog’s color will change through time. And I think it’s important to maybe spend a little time there. Yeah. 

A little color scheme.

Yeah. We’ll start, let’s start. So basically what it is, your dog is one or five colors. Okay. And your dog can actually be like nine colors ’cause they actually go somewhere in between. But let’s just start off. So what I always wanted people to know was with, and I did this on my tv, my second TV series called What Color Your Dog.

I had a second show, but they were, um, it was a nationally syndicated TV series. Um, okay. So the closer your dog is to the middle, middle of the spectrum, the easier your dog is to train. So yellow dog is in the middle of the spectrum, Mel or yellow, without. Okay. Then we have a dog, which is green, which is gonna be timid, apprehensive, um, cautious, somewhat cautious.

And we have a blue dog, which is afraid of everything. You walk into a bed, you walk into a bedroom and he runs under a bed. Okay. So the blues and greens are gonna be a cooler color dogs. Okay? Then we move away and we have an orange dog, which is gonna be high, strong red dog is gonna be. Super, super high strong off the wall.

Front feet are never on the ground. Just, you know, going crazy. That’s a red, that’s the extreme. Those are warmer colored dogs. Okay, so we have a red, orange, yellow, green, and blue. Okay? Over the course of time, as you’re working with your dog, if you’re doing things the right way, your dog is gonna move towards the center of the spectrum.

Will a blue dog who’s afraid of everybody, ever be a yellow dog? No. He will never be a yellow dog, but he’ll probably be a green dog if you do things the right way. Will a red dog who’s just incredibly high strung, ever be a yellow dog? Probably not. But he can be an orange dog, can an orange, a green dog become a yellow dog?

Absolutely. You know, and stuff like that. And we talk a lot about the greens and oranges because the truth is in animal sheltered and humane societies, 75, 80% of all the dogs you see in animal sheltered and humane societies are gonna fall into that orange and green dog care category and that orange dog and green dog, if those dogs are socialized from the very beginning around people.

Um, they’re trained using positive reinforcement From the very beginning, we’re dealing with some of those fear issues or excitement issues they have. We’re dealing with those issues. We’re socializing the animals, again, we’re training them. Those have every reason to go yellow. But if you take a greener orange dot, you throw in the backyard, you never socialize the animal.

You train using negative reinforcement to start jacking the dock up with training colors from the very beginning. No treats or anything like that. You put in that position, that augment position where it’s fearful. Okay. Um, those two dogs, the green dog can go blue and the orange tub can go red. Okay. And red.

When I say red, become aggressive because like, you know what, you’re putting me in that position. So, um, so we talk a lot about the whole color scheme and really talk about the greens and oranges because the greens and oranges, if you adopt a dog from a shelter and let’s, you know, ’cause I talk about adopting dog site as movie animal trainers.

A lot of dogs, we are from shelters and stuff like that. And humane. So society. Um, we talk a lot about, you know, those particular, uh, those particular dogs. But the interesting thing is your dog can also change colors within a training session. And that’s why I wrote more what colors dog. But because let’s say you’re working with a Ja a, a Jack Russell Terrier, and let’s say the Jack Russell Terrier, you know, they’re mostly are green, are gonna be orange dogs.

But let’s say it’s Tim, it’s a green dog, and you’re using pos, you training those treats in the front, in the, in the house. Everything is cool. We’re right side of the house. We’re, but we’re about a foot away from the door. Right. And yesterday he killed a rabbit in the, uh, in the backyard, okay. And there’s a bunch of rabbits in the front yard, and you are gonna go train him to heal.

Okay? Even though you’re training to, you know, use treats and stuff. We’re training as a green dog inside the house. We’re walking outside the front door and we are going to train him to heal. Okay? But because we walk out that front door, all of a sudden he killed, he killed the rabbit last night. He sees Roberts out there.

He’s showing you a different color. He showing you at morning. We will train him for the color that he’s showing us at the time. Not his color that he is naturally, but it’s the color he’s showing us at the time. So we will use training color, we’ll do things, and one of the reasons we talk about the color scheme is because a lot of dogs are returned back to animal shelters.

We made society is because people use a training color on a dog that should not have used a training color on. You didn’t need another yellow dog, you didn’t need a green dog, you need another blue dog. But a lot of dog dogs return back to animal shelters because they did not use a training collar on dog.

They should have used an orange dog or a red dog. Okay. Um, so that’s kind of what we talk about. And as I said, over the course of time, the dogs will change colors and move kind of towards the center of the, 

and I think that last thing you said is an important thing for people to recognize and understand that if you’re training properly, they’re going to change through time.

You know, I don’t use the the color schematic, but I always explain to my clients I do a lot of aggression and a lot of fear work that the advice I give you today on lesson. On less than eight, you know, three months from now, I’m probably gonna say the exact opposite because your dog’s gonna be very different.

And that’s really hard for people, unless it’s explained to them to understand that this is not the Bible that you’re supposed to stick with forever. This is based upon your dog today. 

And the first question people are gonna ask you when you, of course you do this on a, on a daily basis, but you know, people ask you, it’s like, what?

But I thought you said this. But if you clarify things from the very beginning, you say, ’cause I always tell people from the very beginning, it’s like, what we’re doing today is not gonna be what we’re doing, you know, in three or four weeks down the road. You know, we are using, you know, uh, e coloring your dog.

The goal is to have your collar off your dog and down the road when it happens. I don’t know. You know what I mean? We don’t know until we start working with the dogs, but the, the goal is to have it off the dog, you know, and stuff. So, um, but that, yeah, exactly what you’re saying. 

I always tell people if I’m saying the same thing six months from now, that’s a problem.

That means we haven’t made any progress. I need to get, I need to get a new career. Yes. We should be talking about something completely different. ’cause your dog should be wildly different six months from now. Yeah, exactly. 

Exactly. 

So those, those two books, 

are those two of your bigger sellers? Um, no. The rituals is probably the biggest one right now.

I mean, I, not to be honest with you, no. My books are great sellers and stuff like that. I, you know, I always honest with people and stuff like that. Um, you know, um, I, I think, you know, I think that the older you get, I just gonna be honest with everybody, I’m almost, you know, I’m almost three years away from 70.

Okay. And, um. The older you get, the further away you get from where you were, you know? And like, I would walk into PetSmart, okay, when my show is I on animal plant, people would hear my voice. They’d be like, oh, you know, like, Hey, I thought I heard your voice, you know, next roll over. So that’s how people knew me.

Um, you what have my, you know, dog training videos. Like nobody had that stuff before. And it’s just very different now. First of all, it’s more competitive and secondly, it’s just, you know, I’ve just, it’s just, it’s a different time. There’s a different phase of my life and stuff like that, you know, so, um, but, but the rituals is probably the, and the, it’s the one that I like best because I kind of go over the color scheme.

In chapter one. I talk about, um, the game chapter four. Um, and it’s funny because I wrote this book before I met Jay. I mean, that’s how long ago I wrote this book. But I said in this book, if what you’re doing, and I don’t care what you’re doing, how you’re training your dog, if your training is not perceived as a game, um, you’re missing out if your dog is not perceiving what you’re doing as a game.

You know, you’re missing out. Whether it’s play, whether it’s just me doing as a movie animal trainer doing obedience, you still obedience. Make it like dogs. Like, what’s, what’s what I’m doing? Here’s here, we’re doing okay, do this, da da da. Even if you’re gentle manipulation, like corrections, whatever. Treat dogs that great.

Um, that’s the deal. And remember too, and this is what I tell people constant. This is my, this was in, uh, the rituals book. And I talk a lot about now, even though I’m very soft spoken, you know, and like, I always tell people, you know, it’s like sit, lie down. Everything we do, make a statement at a question.

We don’t raise our, we don’t say it lie down, you know, whatever. It’s sit, lie down. And I, and I sit constantly and, but don’t make no mistake that dogs are bred to be told what to do. Lie down, go over here. Go pick this up, duck. If you see me work out as a movie animal trainer, go here. Go here, go here. We tell them what to do.

I don’t care what you’re doing, we tell them what to do so that when they’re done, you can tell them how great they are in many different ways. It may be through play, it may be through treats, it may just come in and they just wanna go and love up on you. Whatever it is, that’s the relationship and that’s what they’re working for.

And so I always tell people too, I always tell, try to tell people that. Tell them what to do. So when they do that, when they’re finished, ’cause they’re looking at you going, is this it? That’s it. It’s like, great. You know? Okay. The okay thing now my, my release is okay. Okay. We are done. If we don’t hear, okay.

We’re not done. I can say good until I’m blue in the face. I can say, good. Great dog, good job. Excellent. ’cause when we’re rolling and the camera’s over there and he’s, we’re ready to shoot mc dog’s 30 feet away. He’s gotta do like 30 different things in one shot, but I can’t and I gotta send him over here and stuff.

I’ve been prepping for three months or whatever, you know. I can go. Camera’s ready to go. Stay. Stay. Good boy. That’s a good boy. He’s all ready to go. I’m 30. They’re ready. Ready, Joel? Yeah. Okay. Good boy. Ready? Good. You’re doing great. You’re doing they ready? Okay. Come on now, take off. And so I’ll take off and do it.

So the, my good. And we’ll talk, I really wanna talk a lot about markers and bridges and stuff like that too, if you can, but, um, but anyway, yeah, that’s, um, but, but, but I always tell people though, and this is what I, you know, is just they bread to be told what to do, sporting, herding, um, all the, all those, all those different groups, all those different groups that are out there working, herding, and sporting.

If you have a shepherd mix, golden mix, lab mix, whatever, whatever, it all comes from that, you know, where they’re told. So, yeah. Important. 

So you said something a moment ago and, and you threw it in almost as an afterthought, but I think it’s something we could unpack a little bit. You talked about giving a variety of different rewards.

So you said it could be praise treats, could be, you know, a tug or a toy. And I, I’m assuming you’re saying that because dogs like different things, right? 

Well, the thing is, well, I’m saying, I’m saying also because of different textiles of training. If you look at Jay, what Jay will do is like, he uses play as a reward.

That’s, I mean, that play is, is, is now he’ll do some stuff at him, search for the food and stuff like that, but he uses play as a reward, that play, and he gets the animal focused into that particular object and says, this, this thing is gonna be the biggest thing in your life. You’ve never done it before.

Like, he’ll get a dog in that has a high prey drive, doesn’t even know how to play, but he’ll take the animal and he’ll make that thing the biggest thing. And by the time he’s done working with that dog, that, um, and I’ve worked with some dogs a little bit, kind of a little bit not, but not what he does on the extreme.

But that when you have that object where it’s like that thing is so, is the biggest thing in dog’s life now. That dog that has some aggression towards another dog or a people or whatever. And now you have the object here and you’re walking around Bob’s looking, going, no. Those things. Yeah, I was that way.

But you know, I’m really that object, you know, I really want that thing. That’s a major redirection, you know, and stuff like that. And so now you can use, you know, now he takes the object and gives it to those people and be great, now go get it. Boom, boom, boom. They tug, tug thug dog back. He says, yes, comes back to him, da da.

So now it’s total redirection. Dog was like, you know, playing tug with the person that the dog was, you know, aggressing towards, you know, and stuff. I mean, that’s, that’s how that stuff works. And so, um, so you know, but what, what I try to teach people is the varied reinforcement schedule. So I like to use very reinforcement.

So I’ll use if a dog likes, you know, playing with balls or tugging whatever, and treats and tactile, I’ll use, I’ll use all the rewards at different times. You know, granted food is probably the, the, the biggest thing with most dogs, especially, I’m using check-in or high value treat. So I’ll use that, but I will break it up and stuff.

I can just spend time dog, stop the session, just, you know, you know, rubbing the dog’s neck and just. You know, stop for, you know, three or four minutes or whatever. Or if they do like toys, just playing with a toy, stop it and just stop the session right there. Play with a toy, you know? So, um, 

so that’s something I think a lot of, especially newer trainers miss, is that dog what’s considered, whether it’s an aversive or reward, it depe, it’s in the eye of the, it’s in the eye of the beholder, right?

So it’s, to me, it’s the dog’s decision. Is this thing an aversive or is this a reward, or is this neither? Some dogs love food, right? Like you mentioned, but some, it’s the pet, right? It’s petting, it is rubbing the neck is way better and way more rewarding than any, any food. And I think a lot of people get stuck in their method and don’t spend time figuring out what is this dog like, and what does this dog not like?

What are your thoughts there? Well, 

I think, and, and speaking of methods really quickly, I wanted to tap into this too. Um, I use the word tempo, okay. In a training session. Okay? First of all, my sessions, a lot of times I’ll be working on one thing for about two minutes. I just work on one thing for two minutes.

And it’s just like when I get what I want, I either go to, I, I, I can end the session right there and be like, okay, we’re done. And dog is like, if you were to watch all my dogs’ work, we’re done. Dog’s looking at me. Whoa, whoa, whoa. We’re done. It’s like, yeah, we’re done. That’s the whole point. We’re done. Okay.

I left you, you didn’t leave me, you, I didn’t burn you out. I didn’t fry you. I left you dog. Now we may come back in minute, we may come back in two hours, but that’s my decision on what we’re gonna do. But I left the dog wanting, I left the dog wanting more. Um, but with tempo, the tempo and a training session, that’s not tempo, but that’s just basically teaching people knowing when to quit and make, you know, keeping that session short and sweet.

But the tempo is an important thing. I’m working with the dog and training the dog to do this behavior to uh, um, retreat. For example. You know, I myrie, my big thing is I, you know, slightly up and hold out and just do a lot of the stuff old, old time. Obedient stuff that I learned in the late seventies.

Okay. Every know general manipulation, uh, out, boom, treat out treat. So, ’cause I do general manipulation retreats. That’s my, so I do this. So I do a bunch of these. I do. And I find the dog is kind of, you know, getting it right. And so I’ve never ever, so I, so yeah, so kind of do this behavior and everything is going grid, and then what I do is I just stop.

Okay, stop for about maybe 10 seconds. And now we start continuing. And as we continue, just because with what we’ve done, um, and I’m gonna, I’m gonna give, I’m gonna, instead of that, I’m gonna use a, I’m gonna use elevator areas as example, because I, I always use elevator areas as, as example for this. So I’m guiding, my dog’s never been in an elevated area.

I take a treat, I go with the dog up and goes, when I, my elevator is at the sign, it’s like, you know, it’s two inches. It’s like two inches and it’s just, you know, and it’s, it’s flat and it’s after turf. And it’s like, okay. So we go with the dog up, he goes up, can treat, come up, warm him up. So once I’m luring a lot and he is coming up pretty good, you know, with the tree, you know l still luring and stuff, then what I do is I help the people literally the same in the first session.

Could we come up or after the clockwise? Clockwise off, right? Back up. Just make a game out of it, right? Come back up within, if a dog is luring up after the fourth time we stop, okay? And dog May, this may never know, this I do is dog right out outta the shelter, right? And we never have been trained before.

I bring the dog there, I stand right here and I say stay. Even though we’ve never ever used the word stay with the dog, I’m standing in front of the dog dog’s just looking at me with a treat, right? Steak. Okay? And then I say, okay, and then I got him a You watch and see when you do that four times in a row and you tell the dog to stay for 10 seconds and you’re like, okay, you watch that dog explode.

Dog has never ever done that before. But why did it explode? Because it knew what was going on and you held the dog. It all comes from the agility. It’s like agility, working. I do all these people. Wait, if you watch agility, you watch it. What do they say? Ready, ready, ready. It creates anticipation. This is no different.

We’re, we’re, we’re doing it. Create anticipation in the first session of dog training dogs, right? On a shelter stay. Okay. That’s the way you do it. And you start doing stuff like that from the very beginning. Now the training session becomes a really cool thing. And the reason I say it is because people bring their dogs out for 20 minutes.

They fry the dogs. The dog’s like, screw this. I don’t want ’em come out. Screw, I don’t wanna do this training session anymore. This is not fun. And what you need to do is people need to make their training experience for the dog an enjoyable one. And if you can do that and make that cool, that’s what’s gonna get the dog trained.

You know? But when you start bringing the dog out for all this, you know, I, I sit constantly and just frying the dog and burn the dog out. It’s like I wouldn’t wanna stay out there. I mean, I always put myself a place of the dog, you know, and stuff. But I always like to use tepo as a thing. ’cause my tempo changes.

Rather than just constantly up, up, up, up, up and end the session. No, change the tempo. Just stop tempo, change it. Stop, stay. It’s the same thing with the sit, turning the dog to sit, you know, sit, return the dog to sit, sit, sit. Everything’s doing it. Hold, stay. Boom. I wanna put it on cue. Let’s say I’ve been using lu with treats, whatever, and it’s like, I’ve been doing this.

Now this sudden when I do it, I do it with my hand. Now instead of doing treats, I wait 10 seconds. Now I do my hand. Boom, dog sits. Because we have that anticipation. Dogs waiting for something. And now we progressed in that couple last couple seconds. We’ve faded out the treats. Now we’re, now we’re on a hand to you.

I mean, you can so totally do it that way. So that’s really what I try to explain to people is to teach a lot about tempo and breaking that tempo up during your training sessions. 

So how much of your work, I guess, what are you doing these days? Is most of your work. Uh, when you’re touring with the other guys, or do you have a lot of clients in the area where you live?

What are you doing on kind of on a daily basis? 

I don’t do any dog training really. I play pickleball. I play, I play in a very high level of pickleball with you. And, um, Larry will tell you, I’ll let, I’ll let Larry tell you ’cause Larry play with me, and so Larry have me a little bit of an injury playing with me and a year and a half ago.

Um, but I, um, no, I play, I play on a very high level, and so I, um, and I’m as fast as I was when I was 30 years old, and I play Willy Lily, I play hard. And so I do, and I play a lot of that and I do, um, um, I don’t do a lot of, I try, I work with Oliver, my little guy a little bit and stuff like that. Um, but honestly, I’m kind of semi retarded, you know, and I just do my thing.

I do. Right now, I just, I’m spending time, actually right now, I’m spending my time with, um, this new dog fitting franchise. So actually they fly in, I teach them when they’re here. Um, you know, I, it’s my basic certification course. They learn that course and then, you know, basically they go back to their hometowns.

I’m with them doing Zoom calls. I’m with them on like these two, these people that finished up two weeks ago. I’m with them like every other day on the call. They’re videotaping what they’re doing. Um, so I’m there. Um, it’s almost like I’m there with them. But, um, it’s a very aggressive course that I teach.

Um, it’s a four day course. I don’t think anybody does anything is um, it’s face sit, stay by, down come, he’ll go to a place. These are all green dogs. Dogs are not even trained at all. And by the time they’re done, these dogs are trained to do these behaviors. And I just pick out the, I pick out the right dogs and you gotta pick out the right dogs.

Dogs that aren’t trained have a good food drive. Um, and then we do, we go, we do go over some e collar stuff. I’ll pick up, I have a rescue group here in re in Reno that has dogs that they pick up from. Um, that actually are supposed to be euthanized from Southern California, from Apple Valley. Hes far area.

They bring ’em up here. And these dogs are, uh, feral pretty much. So we actually use three of those for our, um, and we actually socialize a little bit. We did a little eco stuff with them. Um, they just, it was good. It was like, I might say far they were, you know, they were pretty green enough to where once we got around nest, they were really cool and it worked out great for where we could actually start introducing a little bit of, you know, light eco stuff.

And these guys were able to see that, how, how that works. So we introduce it to them, uh, really low level. 

So up until now in this conversation, you’ve talked about treats a lot, and then now you just brought up ecos and I think most of our listeners are balanced trainers and understand this, but some, you know, some people might not.

I, I find sometimes clients are confused by the fact that someone would use ECOS and treats and anyone who’s a good trainer, that’s not confusing at all, of course. But when you’re talking to someone new as knows nothing about dog training, how do you explain that? That you’re using a lot of treats, but you also use a tool such as an eco?

Okay, well the first thing, let’s talk about treats for a second. We use treats trained behaviors. Once a behavior is trained, we fade out the treats. So if your dog is only trained to use treats. That’s it. And when it’s trained, you only rely on treats. Then your dog is, you’re just bribing your dog. The art to dog training is to fade out the treats.

So eventually get to a point where 50% treats, 50% tactical reward, 75% tactical reward, 25% treats, and eventually, you know, 95%, 90% tactical reward, 5% treats. So when we’re training our dog in a controlled environment, I tell people in my, in my, what, what color is your dog? Book. Second one, chapter nine. You go into controlled and uncontrolled environments in a controlled environment.

It’s, it is actually, it is. We are training our dog to sit, stay alive on company, go to place, uh, advanced behaviors. We’re using treats to train the behavior that is a controlled environment in an uncontrolled environment. It is exactly what it is. The dog is not in any control whatsoever. He’s not on a leash.

He’s in, he’s on the, I always like to use an example on the back of the couch, staring at the window, barking at other dogs. We are not working at the dog. Okay. Um, the, uh, male guy comes to the front door, come to the front door, box in the front door, people come to the front door, they jump up on people at the front door.

There’s counters, there’s stuff on the counters. He’s, you know, jumping up on counters, feeding, boom, the trash, whatever. We’re not working with the dog. These are uncontrolled environments. And then, and, and the reason I, the reason i I talk about this is because a lot of the positive only crowd, I can get a lot of the positive only crowd to 180 to what I’m saying.

I mean, there’s some that just, you know, will not, but a lot of ’em will 180. And the reason I talk about it’s because my corrections in a controlled environment, because the dog is working for a treat, is just have a dog repeat the behavior. The attitude is like, hey, the sooner you do it, the sooner you get a reward.

You make a mistake, you know, Hey, we’re gonna do it. We’ll do it again. Give another shot. I’ll make it a little bit easier on you. Do a reward. And that’s how we, that’s how we train the behavior. I don’t say no, I don’t say, uh, ah, I don’t, I, I let the dog figure out for himself. If that doesn’t work, whatever you’re using is not the right treat.

Okay? And there’s people, that’s the biggest problem mistake people make is these treats that are half-assed. Treats dog could give a crap about, use something the dog loves, okay? Chicken, cheese, steak. If it’s, if it’s a, if it’s a treat that people use for dog’s, treat, make sure the dog likes it. But a lot of people just use some, and dogs like, screw this, I really don’t wanna do it.

And it’s like, well, the dog’s not gonna get trained, you know? And so that is the, that is the controlled environment, okay? In the uncontrolled environment, the reason we don’t treat the uncontrolled environment is because the completion of the action as a reward, okay? And allowing your dog to play out actions is reinforcing.

So that’s why we have to find a way to interrupt the behavior. Now as we interrupt the behavior, there’s such different types of, different types of collar we can use. You can use mild turn training, collar, we can use an eco martin, GA collar, hitch collar, whatever you want to use, okay? On the dog to out the behavior.

But, and the, and the reason I don’t, we, you know, trainers don’t treat in that situation is because we don’t ever wanna create any situation. Dog’s like, oh, I barked, I stopped, I got a treat for it. It’s like, hmm, let’s see. Wait, I barked, I stopped for 30 seconds. Maybe there is something with that, that barking thing, because I did get that treat 30 seconds later.

So, you know, I think like a dog, my attitude’s like, no, there’s no food involved at all in this situation. However, there is a call that we use, which is an eco, and every trainer that I know that is a really, really good trainer and trainers I use, and the guy I learned from, Don Darnell, he dropped, bought the dogs on LEPD in the sixties, like the seventies.

Okay? He’s the guy, he’s the guy, show me Eco 19. In 2019 99, 2000, he was the first person show me eco. And even him back then is the fact that what we do is we condition a dog with that tree. We condition to understand. How this, what this cowboy collar is with a treat, you know? And God looks at us, the tap on, he looks us, you know, as soon he looks at us, good boy, make the, the biggest second go, Hey, great.

Get a treat. It’s like, here’s the game. We talked about the game, right? And Larry, you, Larry, I mean this is, this is why I met Larry at the bar because when I saw what Larry did, it was like, that’s the way I do it. You know? And that’s not just that, that, and that’s, that’s the way other pe you know, successful dog trainers do that, that that’s the way they do it.

But so having said that, the people that are listening to this right now need to understand with that particular collar, yes, we want to condition it with the treat and make it a cool thing and make, but eventually you get to the point where you start thinking how the treats sometimes starts, understanding what this collar is all about.

But we use the treats in that way. That’s the one thing, like I would never use treats for my, using my collar. We would never use treats to condition a dog to understand that, you know, pinch collar, Martin, Gale collar, my collar, you know, chain collar, if you choose to use that, whatever you wanna give. But the eco’s a different story.

Eco’s a different story. Is making it to the dog is like, okay, cool. I wanna feel the stimulation so I can look at you, you can tell me how, you know, call me and tell me how great I’m giving a trick. I mean, that’s basically how, that’s a ticket. You know, that’s what it’s all about. You’re finding, right? Well, that’s how it works.

We’re in, we’re in a sterile area, we’re making a game out. It, it’s cool now we start going outside. We understand that that’s right. You know, there’s ions or whatever. We’re gonna have to start increasing a higher level. We’re just happen harder. Todd still feels the same thing. Everybody knows, people with e collars know how that works.

Um, so, but I just wanna make it clear to everybody with a, with a treat thing that we will condition it. You know, I, I shouldn’t make condition using treats, the eco, um, but no other training call when it comes to using negative enforcement. 

Alright, so this question is actually first on my list because I think you’re the, the best person in the world to ask this ’cause of your dual experience training.

And, uh, with killer whales and then dogs. I get this client, this question from clients, you know, time to time where they say, Hey, why would we ever correct a dog? Because in the zoo, when they work with, fill in the blank, an elephant or a tiger, they only use positive reinforcement. They never use any sort of correction.

So why would we do that with our dogs? I’m assuming you’ve gotten that question. How would you answer it? 

Well, because, well, the, the, the, it’s real simple. It’s a simple one because the do the an, those animals are not in an environment. You’re not, you’re not on the same medium as that. That’s why with the same, that’s why we use as positive enforcement with dolphins and killer whales, because we’re not, we use a target, we use a whistle.

We have the luxury in working with a dog where our dog is on our medium. It’s there with us. We have the ability to manipulate general manipulation with the, with the retrieve. Like I could never do that with a sea lion, with, you know, with their mouth and do the same thing with the cline. Even though I can train to hold stuff in their mouth, it’s all gonna be done a different way.

But we have the ability to, to, same with Play Dead. I just gentle let your dog over and stuff like that. Head down. We can kind of touch the dog’s head. You have the ability to add a little bit of that stuff. That, and it makes, it makes it a little gray when we do that. But if there is a luxury of working with a dog that’s in your medium, so the people that can go and work with an elephant and use a clicker on that giraffe and have, it’s all, that’s all Costco conditioning.

Okay. And, but you know, that’s all classical conditioning, but operate conditioning, you know, when we become, you know, when we become the person that’s operator, you know, in charge and, and we are the one making the decisions that, and, and, and generating everything, that’s a whole different story. And you have a lot more control using operat conditioning than, than classical condition.

Way more control. But, but cla but there are something to be set with classical conditioning. ’cause I tell people all the time, um, we just started doing, I, oh, one of the things I teach these, um, film and TV courses across the United States TV people become movie animal trainers. We actually launched that about three years ago.

So I do two or three of those a year as well. And we do a lot of, um, this, we take a poll and we had change talk to train dog to like place things in bowls and stuff like that. And, um, and it’s great for dogs that don’t even have a retrieve because we can use it that way. We can actually train and retrieve when the dog doesn’t like being, have stuff held, just having dog, you know, drop things in bowl and replace the bowl.

That’s all classical conditioning. That whole thing is classical condition. 

Guys, we just want to give a quick shout out to one of our longtime IACP sponsors, uh, blue Nine PET Products. So are you looking to level up your training classes and boost client success? The Climb by Blue Nine PET Products is the professional’s go-to platform.

It’s built for clear communication. Easier class management and better owner follow through. Plus, it’s a proven way to increase revenue. Trainers across the country sell the climb right from their facility. And I know we sell a lot of them. We use ’em in group classes, shelter programs, lots of different ways we implement the climbs.

And with exclusive wholesale pricing, there’s never a better time to get started. Visit blue nun.com to apply today and start building a better training business. 

Let’s, I mean, I think we could unpack a little bit more here ’cause I, I think there’s a lot to talk about. So you mentioned the difference, you know, between opera conditioning and classical conditioning.

And if we talk a little bit about, you know, the animals in the zoo, I mean, we’re not living with those animals, 

right? Yeah. They’re not, they’re not in our medium. That’s the whole thing. They’re not in our medium. And there’s a, there’s a, a, a, there’s a wall between them and us and we have a wall and you’re doing straight classical conditioning and stuff like that.

You are. I mean, you don’t do a lot of things, but it takes a long time to do all those things because you’re basically expecting the dog to the animal. It’s like, now you gotta do this, then you do this, or whatever. Click animal’s. Like, okay, great, you know, now I’m gonna walk over here and do this. I walked over here and, you know, it’s such thing when you want somebody shut the lights off, you know, and you know, and they walk over there, you do the thing and they, you click, they’re like, okay, great.

I’m gonna walk over here and, you know, do in front of people, but eventually they get to point, they turn the lights off. It’s that same type of thing. Um, people spend a lot of time, same with sha, same with free shaping. You know, I don’t, I tell people all the time, you know, I don’t free shape, I free shape very little, you know, you know, some people are like, wait, how can you not free shape?

And it’s like, I, I Moving animal trainers do not free shape. We already know what steps we’re training. Every behavior, every behavior that I train, I, I know every single step of what I’m doing. And that border colleague might learn all seven steps in 45 seconds. You know that, you know, she’s a machine man.

She learns everything. She, I’m gonna go through all those steps and by, by in 45 seconds, she’s on step seven, man. She’s got it on cue. Everything is cool, but the little peak and ease, that’s a little slower. Okay? You might be on step two and three for, you know, two or three days. That’s why we break things into small steps.

So when you say you don’t do much free shaping, what about with, when you were training killer whales? I’m assuming you did a lot of free shaping, then 

that’s a different, that’s a different story. See, that’s all free. That is all free shape. Well, that is, it is free shaping, but using a target. Okay? And so when you have a target, you now have the ability to control when you’re using a target and, and adding a target to the train, training a dolphin to a front foot, dolphin spin around or whatever.

That’s operator operating in charge. But operator, you, that becomes operating conditioning. But if you’re asking the animal to do something, if you’re just waiting for the animal to just gonna do something, you’re like, okay, great, now you do this, that, and just kinda make things, make, that’s the free, that’s free sha and what people do a lot of times with, um.

I’m gonna give you example. I watch, I won’t say the trainer, but I watch the trainer, you know, they’re working with a dog and he posts on, on Facebook and it was like he was training a dog to sit and the dog goes off a leash, okay? First of all, I would’ve have the dog on a leash, but he tells the dog to sit.

The dog takes two steps, forward him towards him. He sits, he gives the dog a treat, and he makes a big deal out of it. And like, yeah, he took it upon himself to sit, remember, sit. And he did it again. The dog did the same thing. And like, and he thought it was the greatest thing since sliced breath. I think it’s the worst thing in the world, okay?

Because the worst thing, ’cause you just taught the dog to take two steps for it towards you and sit, okay? I don’t look at it like he corrected himself. I looked at it like he just cheated. You know what I mean? And so I’m gonna put a leash on the dog and I’ll let dog cheat and I’ll say, and you know, and do it that way.

Um, so that’s kinda like the free shaping thing. That’s what I’m talking about. Free shaping or I’ll put a leash on, I’ll be like, no, I’m actually gonna work it, rather than allowing you to kind of do things on your own. Now the two behaviors I frees shape, um, a trained dog to puts head down. Okay. And what I do a lot of times is I’ll have my finger, my finger right here, and I’ll have the dog like, you know, have an elevated area.

I long down so his head can rest on the elevated area. And I’ll just kind of take my hand here, move my finger down with no food, and I’ll be, you know, I’ll be a good two feet from the dog, eight in the dog. And I’ll just move my hand. I’ll touch my hand down and I won’t do another way. I’ll say, I’ll just say head down just like that, even though he does know what I’m he, but, but sometimes if I just wait him out for about 20 seconds, he’ll just go, boom, put his head down, mark it good and reward.

Okay, that’s, that is free shaping because basically I told him to do something. I let him kind of think about it. He put his head down greatly cool. But now what’s gonna happen is now it’s, and now I’m gonna say I’m gonna get my hand over close, I’ll say head down, falls my hand head down. That’s no longer classical condition.

That becomes alpha conditioning. Now what’s happening is I’m no longer free shaping. I’m telling him what to do, head down, boom. And now we’re, now it, it changes to operat condition from, from free, from classical conditioning. Okay. Because he’s not doing anything on his own. It starts off, it starts off with classical condition.

That’s the one behavior. Um, there might be, I think there’s one more behavior, I think I do, but most of the behaviors I do, it’s all done through operating where I’m basically showing the dog from the very beginning of the steps. 

So you, it sounds like you work with a lot of new trainers and I’m curious how much time you spend on this, because I feel like very often people focus only on operant conditioning and they’re just thinking about their decisions, the dog’s decisions and they don’t think enough about classical conditioning and what the dog is learning may be unintentionally, very often unintentionally in the connections they’re making.

Big example I give people is if you get that leash out and you get the dog fired up every time, pretty soon you get the leash out, the dog’s gonna be fired up on their own. They’re gonna have no idea why. Right? They’re just fired up. ’cause that’s just how they feel in that moment. And it could be the doorbell.

There’s many examples of this where people don’t recognize the con, you know, the connection and the dog is making in that moment. How much time do you spend talking to people about, you said this earlier, see the world through the dog’s eyes, or understand the dog. I feel like when people really start to see the world through the dog’s eyes, they start to realize all these connections the dog is making that are creating what they consider undesirable or bad behavior.

That was very accidental. That was very easy to prevent if they were watching closely. 

I think, I think art to, to dog training is to beat the dog to the punch. Okay. And that’s, that’s, that’s the art to doing it. And so understanding that I have a pre-training exercise. I teach all my clients and I actually talked about this in uh.

My books. I think, I think rituals. I talk about it. I think it was the first time I talked about it, but it’s a pre-training exercise that I do. I have, um, husband and wife and I, this is great ’cause I talk about short training sessions. This could be as long as you want. Okay? This can be as long as you want.

There’s no food involved with this at all. You put a one of my colors on the dog, my, my alternative training collar. Uh, ’cause I like my collars. ’cause you can correct and release it. It has slack. Okay. You wanna teach a dog slack. So we have a dog that you just talked about like that. We have a dog wants to lunch.

Okay. Just wants, just cannot sit. Still wants a lunch. Husband and wife are standing 10 feet apart. Each one has a glass of wine. Okay? He’s got the dog here. The, the rules of this. Every time he takes a step forward, you crack the dog, bring the dog back, release the power release, set forth. He’s gonna move around.

He’s gonna move here. He’s gonna use to stand on you. He’s gonna stand, he’s gonna sit, he’s gonna find a place where he’s comfortable. He can’t lunge, he can’t jump. You can. I don’t, I don’t want people talking to the dog at all. You don’t talk to the dog at all. Just correct him. Release, correct Release.

He’s gonna find a place he might wanna stand leaning against you. He might wanna just lie down. He might wanna sit. He’s gonna find his place. Okay? Just because he found his place. Don’t pet him right away. ’cause you pet him. He’s gonna explode again. Okay? Just let him just be, let him just be there. Let him just mellow out After he is there for about five minutes or whatever, four or five minutes.

Touch him a little bit. Touch him a little bit. Just really mellow. Don’t go, you know the whole thing. Pet like this, where you know the dog explodes. Just real like one. Okay? Once he mellows out, switch people. Now give him that person. Get the other person. You’ve got your glass of wine. Gonna have to do the whole thing all over again.

Whatever. Once you do that, bring without this person, when you could do this pre-training exercise and bring your dog and put the leash on the dog and bring your dog here. What it does is you’re beating your dog to the punch. Because now when you take the leash out, like you just said, take the leash out.

Guess what? Dog starts already knowing. It’s like, oh, okay. Good training. Exercise. Here we go. What’s great about our pre pre-training exercise, it’s a great way to start to heel, it’s a great way to start to sit. It’s a great way to start anything because now we have control over the dog. And the dog is not lunging.

We, we’ve created this thing and we’ve done it in a way where we’re not baiting the dog with food. It’s not a food thing at all. It just spent the time doing it. And that’s, that’s why I give my, my clients actually, the people I trained or my students or whatever, I give ’em these little exercises to do and I’m like, and then a lot of times, you know, everybody wants to talk to the dog.

Everybody wants to pet the dog. And I said, don’t talk the dog. ’cause you’re just totally uming the dog. You know, it’s, we call it, you know, you’re just totally nurturing and you’re just like, forget that. Just let the dog mellow out stuff. And just like, but that’s, that’s, that’s it. That, that pre portraying exercise is huge.

I love that Joel. And I think that’s something that people don’t spend. Enough time on. And I like to stress to clients that operant conditioning, you know, that involves the dog making decisions. Classical doesn’t. So if your dog’s made connections that you’ve probably created accidentally, it’s pretty unfair to start punishing them or being upset about the way they’re acting when they’re not even making a decision at that point.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 

I I, I like that. I like that exercise you were just talking about. Just to expand on it a little, is that something you do with pretty much every new client? 

Oh yeah. Oh, and, well, not so much everyone, just dogs that react. I mean, you know, I mean, if the dog has a, you know, a green dog or yellow dog, obviously that’s a whole, and that’s why we, the color scheme, because people know it’s like you might wanna do a little bit and stuff like that.

And you really don’t need to spend much time on it just because the dog is not reactive and dog is, you know, wherever the dog is gonna be, it’s a yellow dog or a green dog, but pretty much gonna be kinda right where you are and stuff like that too. And then one of the reasons where the color scheme too, you tap into is because your body language, the way you walk, talk, move, reward.

Correct. Everything changes within those. Cooler and warmer colored dogs. Um, it might be to wear a, uh, an orange dog that you’re working with. Let’s just talk about orange dogs for a second. I mean, they have a good high, you know, food drive. So maybe the dry biscuit, a milk bone is perfect for them. You don’t need a high value treat.

High value treat actually is probably too much for those dogs. You know, so you got the dry biscuit, the way you move, you know, maybe you get, you’re gonna be a lot more deliberate. Maybe saying the word stay, like I use the word stay as a crutch, you know, and I say it many, many times early on, people go, oh, I say, stay constantly.

Yeah, I am today, but tomorrow I’ll be saying half as many times. And the next day, and by next week, I’ll be saying it like once, rather than allowing my dog to break, let’s just use my crutch. And, and the stay is a crutch. And it’s just like a drug. And if a drug is, if you get off a drug, you’re fine. If you don’t get off a drug and you abuse a drug and you get off a drug, you’re in, you’re in trouble.

If you don’t get off the stay, you’re in trouble with a dog as well. But the stay to me is a huge, huge, uh, hit huge. 

And when you say it’s a crutch, do you mean just repeating the word very often or do you consider the entire command to be a crut? 

Basically, if you’re training about to stain, let’s say you start stepping back.

Okay. The whole thing with stay, it’s rock. It’s that first rock. So I tell people all the time, there’s, there’s two parts of stake. There’s time and distance. Time is how long dog is staying distance, how far you get back from the dog. Everybody wants to do the same thing at the same time. Yeah, that can work with certain dogs, but certain dogs, but there are a lot of dogs.

They need that time. So I tell people, stand in front of the dog, elevated area. Watch you have ’em. Watch you for like 15 seconds. Give ’em a treat. Mi a dog’s nose. People say why they give it low, they stand up. So play, you know, a movie animal trainer do it this way. They watch it that way. They watch the actor’s eyes.

So I teach ’em, and it’s just early on just, you know, like, okay, great, great, great. Got the few, you know, 15 feet. But you have a reactive dog. So now let’s say you take a, when you take a step back, we know if you take a step back, dog is gonna break. But if you can walk back, walk, keep one foot there, come back in.

So when you walk, say stay, come back in. Stay. Reward every time you walk, stay. So when that hears that rock at, at that final position all the time they hear that stay. That’s the crutch. Boom, reward. Everything is cool now. Everything’s cool. Take take a step. Take step. Now bring your other up. Stay and then walk in.

Stay and walk in. Reward. Now all of a sudden, ’cause if you can get past that rocking and that first step, now we take two steps. 1, 1, 2, stay, boom, come back and reward. Um, and now, but here’s my foundation thing that we talk about, and this is what I wanna get into. So we’re at two feet, okay? And everybody’s like, I’m at two feet.

Great man, I can start getting further back. It’s like, screw that two feet. Now if you wanna start doing, take a step to the left. Take a step, right? Take a step, breath, take, actually take a step, move a little bit faster that way, stay, come back in. Reward that, move faster. This way, we’re only two feet. Teach your dog to sit and look that direction without breaking that sit.

That’s the foundation. Get that two feet thing where the dog is like solid, really, really good. Even bring other dogs in from two feet, like I’d be two feet away. I’d bring a dog in on a leash, you know, stay when desensitization do all that stuff there. You desensitize the dog from everything two feet away.

Everything is cool. Two feet away, you can get 20 feet away in like, you know, minutes. ’cause you already laid the foundation. Dog’s already been there. Okay. Rather than going, oh, I wanna get really far away and now let’s bring in all this other distraction and stuff like that. No, get the foundation. So that’s a foundation.

I explain that as, let’s just pull one lever at a time. Yeah, I think we’re on the same page there and it’s, if we’re pulling the distraction lever, that’s great, but let’s not worry about distance at that point in time or duration or anything else. 

So many people do and that’s the problem though. But you know, so many people focus on duration and they’re focusing and they push the dog and they push the dog and.

And it’s, you start pushing the dog, it’s not fun. You know, it’s take it slow, take it one step at a time, keep it, keep it enjoyable, you know. So 

when you’re doing this, are you generally working then this day and age on a stage or in front of people, you know, in a conference room? Is that the majority of your work is in front of a group?

Yeah, 

yeah, yeah. In the conference room. But when my style of training is like when I’m break, when I’m doing my classes, I don’t do, I only do one dog at a time and one person at a time. So we focus on phase one. So everybody watches that person do phase one. Let’s say you got five people, here’s phase one.

Well, by the time, and you know, she’s gonna work the dog a couple times and we got the next person and we got the next person. By the time we hit the fifth person phase, one’s done okay. But then with phase two, she, because she was the one that kind of finished it up, she gets to start phase one. Okay.

’cause by the time we get phase two, this person, it’s gonna be done. But everybody has their hands on every step of the, every, like, we had like eight dogs at the last thing we did last week, two weeks ago, or last was last weekend here in Reno. We had like eight dogs that we were. Everybody has their hands on every dog at every face of behavior.

And because we all know, like with my things, these are only four days. You’re not giving dog trainer in four days. But you certainly can do exactly what we did. ’cause you got all the videos they have, they have the portal and they’ve got all my videos, which meant, which from my membership area, which on the portal, and they have a break.

I mean, each one, six minutes of like me working my dog Oliver, breaking down every small sip start to finish so they can do that. And so now we tell them when you get home, do the same thing on three dos. Take the next four to six weeks, do the same thing that you did, and you and I are every other day.

We’re gonna be on your phone, you’re gonna FaceTime, you know, and all the people that sign up are people that truly are mature people that really, really want to, um, that wanna do this, have that, have a good ability and stuff like that. So, um, you gotta remember when I do these things, these dogs, they ever tell their dogs sleep.

Like every, tell ’em we do, we do like dozens of sessions a day. I, I don’t even wanna, I, I don’t want to exaggerate it, but we do so many sessions per day. Oh my gosh. You know, and so these little three minute sessions, like constantly, but that’s why we’re constantly bringing in, we have eight dogs because these dogs are fried ’cause we do so something sessions and stuff like 

that.

And this is basic foundational work. Obedience, commands or behavior too. 

Say lay down, come, heal, go to place. And with the place you guys, and this is something I always like to do at place, um, once you get that stay, it’s really, really good because you get the dog sitting. You got the place, you got your place area, you get your dog sitting in exactly the same place, that place and you want your dog about 18 inches away.

You step back away from, so you got the place almost between you and the dog walking and reward the dog. Stay place, boom. Give the dog a treat. So literally you can take some dogs in the first session that are pretty smart and be working to sit, stay in place. Three of the six behaviors that we teach in our courses, literally in the first session.

Because, and the big, big deal, and the biggest mistake people make is, is I teach people to be unpredictable and unpredictable. And this is something we haven’t really talked about, but we step, everybody wants to step back, safe place, and you know, distance place. Well, if you do that constantly, your dog is gonna start breaking to go to places.

You’re not getting rewarded for the steak. And so when we teach people is 50% of the time rewarded dog for steak. 50% of the time send your out to a place and ran and change it up randomly. Maybe two times this way. Two times that way. But here’s the mistake people make, is they wanna send it out to the place.

They’re like, okay, in their mind they’re gonna say, I’m gonna, I’m gonna bring my dog back. I’m gonna send this place. They get back here and they say place. It’s like, no, no, no, no, no. Every time you do it, make the dog stay for five seconds. Either walk into reward or send to his place because you become predictable.

And dog’s like, okay, well I’m holding my place when you, when you step back ’cause you’re not, you’re never gonna make it. Stay for five seconds to send in my place. Make a stay for five seconds every time, regardless. You know, predictably got, I mean reward for staying. Send you their place. But you do that and you start getting it back, dog back further.

You get further, you get over here. That’s how we train animals, movies and commercials. And now start, you get into different places with the dog on a different place. Start the dog on the line down, starting from six, starting now. Now flip and start that area. Getting his key with the, with the left hand whatever steps.

So, 

so what is some general advice you would give to a new dog trainer? 

Well, the first thing is, was we talked about the bond and relationship. Develop the bond, get to know your dog, get to understand what your dog likes and doesn’t like. Um, find treats. Use a high value treat for your dog, something that the dog just goes crazy over.

Um, if there are treats your dog likes, but not high value treats he still works for, I would use tho those treats and use the high value treats to fall back on using it maybe for the treat or some beha behaviors that are a little more negative and stuff that you really want. You’re gonna manipul dog’s, open, dog’s, mouth open, stay going to the dog, do it that way.

Um, I would use the high value save, the high value treat for, or if you have a dog that’s maybe fearful of things. Things and you’re using treats as redirection for the dog. Use the treats for that fearful stuff only for fearful things and use the other treats for other things. Um, those are, those are things I would tell people.

I also tell people your training session is an important thing. You wanna leave the dog wanting more and everything on a positive note. That’s the most important thing in dog training. Don’t burn your dog out. Um, leave the dog wanting more. Keep the trust and keep the sessions in your show suite. 

That is some good advice.

Thank you. So you’ve mentioned a little bit about what you’re currently doing, but where can people find out more about you? And I, I know you, I mean, you’re gonna be in Nashville later this summer, right? Well, 

actually, um, we are gonna be, are gonna be, we’re gonna be in Boston with Larry and Jay in July if they wanna come and see us there.

Okay. Um, we have a lot of audit spots open. I have working spots open if you wanna work with me. As well. So we’ll be in Boston on the 25th through 27th, um, Boxborough, which is like kinda outside of Boston. That’s our third or fourth year there. Then we’re gonna be in Nashville in October with Larry and Jay.

And then Jay couldn’t make this other event, which is two weeks later and it’s for, um, the Dog Wizard, which is a dog training franchise. And so they brought me in before the new stuff for them. So they’re actually having an event. It’s kind of open to the public, but Larry and I will be doing that event in Knock Knoxville, that’ll be two weeks after the Nashville event.

So it’ll be in October. And then we have another one going in together. The next event will be going in St. Louis and that will be in January. And that will be, um, all three of us elevator. Sixth year in St. Louis. St. Louis is the first place we launched it. So, uh, we were little fun. That’s awesome. Yeah, do that.

And then if they go to my website and learn ’em, if they wanna learn about. Trusted pods. It’s a dog training franchise. You know, people talk a lot about marketing and stuff. So basically what it is, the franchise you buy into, they do all the marketing for you. They have a call center, so you don’t have to worry about that at all.

And uh, and part of the deal is you, you are, you work with me, you fly into work, you know, the city that I’m in, uh, Reno for now, but I’ll eventually move into, I’m moving to Florida next couple months, um, and it’ll be in Florida and you will, uh, work with me and uh, and stuff too. So that’s great. And how do 

people sign up for your seminars On your 

website?

Yeah, my website. Yeah. Joel silverman.net. Other information, alternative training call right there. You can also get ’em on Amazon too. Um, but if you’re looking for the two collar con, we like a two collar combo and stuff like that on our website, we have those. And any, anything you wanna get wholesale 12 colors up, you can buy wholesale too on my website too.

Alright, so I know Jay is gonna be at the IACP conference this year and we’ve been trying to twist Larry’s arm to come and non-committal, but you’re gonna be so close, you should just pop on over. Now. Okay. What, what year, what month is that? What, what? End of July. So it’ll be right after you’re in Boston, I believe.

Now what, what 

city is that gonna be in? Savannah. Savannah. Georgia. Georgia. Yep. End of July. You know what, um, what am I gonna do? I might be, you know what, uh, man, maybe because I’m flying down. We’re flying, actually my wife and I are flying. I’m flying from, I’m flying from Boston on the 27th. What’s, what’s the, uh, dates of that?

Uh, it’s right after that. I wanna say it’s the 29th, 28th, 29th, something like that. 27th. 

I’m flying from Boston down to, um, Florida, and I’m there to sign some papers on this new house we bought. So, um, you know, in that, in the Bonita Springs. So we, um, that can happen. That might happen. Uh, I’ll, I’ll talk to Larry.

I’m just gonna, I was gonna give Larry a jingle today anyways. I’m talking to him in a while. I’ll see what, see what’s going on. But, um, that’d be fun. That’ll be fun to, to go there and see you guys. I know that they’ve asked me to come like next year. So IP I’ll be doing an extra, so I’d be fine. 

Well, that’d be awesome.

And on the dates, anyone listening if I got the date wrong? D don’t take what I said to be the gospel. I think it’s the 29th, but it’s, uh, check the IECP website, make sure I’m not misspeaking right now. 

Yeah, that’d be, that’d be great if, uh, if we, if I could make it, that’d be kind of cool. 

Yeah, it, it’d be a hit.

If you guys show up, people would be excited. 

Yeah, that’d be good. That’d be, that’d be cool. But anyway, I really appreciate you having me on. Yeah, really great, great questions. And I really enjoy doing these a lot. I think, you know, the older you get, the more you just wanna share with people. I was telling Larry and Jake, ’cause they’re, they’re the younger guys.

They’re like about 13 years younger, 14 years younger than me. And, um, I told ’em, I was like, you know, when you guys get to be my age and you start seeing, it’s like, and they’re givers. I mean, these guys love giving and teaching. I mean, nobody, nobody likes teaching more than they, they do. But I mean, you think, you know, they are now, but uh, that by the time they’re older, um, it really gets, becomes contagious where you want to share with people and stuff like that.

So, hey, real quick, uh, I wanna tell people too, you guys also remember too, that always, whatever you’re doing. Stay with whatever your beliefs are, stay with your beliefs. Okay. I, a lot of people think, thought for some reason that I was gonna be this positive only dog training and mammals and getting dog training industry and bring in the whole clicker thing and everything.

Clickers and treats and kumbaya dog training and stuff like that. And everybody thought that’s what I was gonna be and I wasn’t that person. Um, I have gotten, you know, ripped. You have no idea. Okay. By the positive only crowd my entire career. Okay. Um, I was supposed to speak, Ken Meris is a friend of mine who runs Karen Breyers organization.

Okay. At the Clicker Expo. I was supposed to speak the other name speaker. Okay. I have my con signed contract and everything. This was last year. Okay. I signed my, signed everything. I get a call from Ken. I knew exactly what it was. Um, I got totally like blacklisted. I mean, they were like, he says, you know what I, I know I said, I know exactly what called.

He said, I can’t, I can’t. He said, and I said, yeah, ’cause uh, you know, I pat in my training collar for, it’s an alternative training collar, e collar gun, everything like that. And so, um, and I don’t care. And it’s like, you know, that’s the way I am. It’s like my other, and if you have something you believe in, you know, in your style of training and there’s some people that just don’t like it or whatever, you know what?

Screw, that’s your style. That is what you do. You, you, you have your belief, you’re using positive. You know, you, you, you’re not abusing the dog. The dogs like the training sessions and stuff like that, that should be something you just stick with. And that’s your, that’s your, that’s your thing. 

I think that’s great advice.

And if, if you’re a good person, if you just follow your heart, you’re gonna be fine. 

Yeah, exactly. 

Awesome. Well thank you for taking the time, Joel. Appreciate it. And thank you for listening everybody. Thanks